To think DSS may be telling more porkies?

[ThingsToDoWithTheKidsInKent]

I'll keep this as brief as poss

My DHs son is 15. Since knowing him from around 11 he's been a bit of a fibber and fantasist. He tells wildly untrue stories and essentially lies just about everything. He's also quite maipulative, and uses his fibs to get his own way. I make him sound like a monster. He's not, he's actually a lovely polite timid boy, apart from this issue. We just put it down to him being a kid and using separated parents to his advantage, and hoped he'd grow of it.

But now we've just discovered he's no longer attending school and will be privately tutored at home, for free (his mum's on benefits). When asked why he said because he was depressed and had attempted to cut himself because school won't "let him be who he wants to be". When I asked what he meant by that, he said its because school "keep getting on at him" for not sticking to the uniform and personal appearance policy and keep disciplining him for his piercings and his long hair that he regularly dyes bright colours.

Now, I find this hard to believe. Not that he's depressed, I believe that. He's become even more withdrawn and shuts himself away in his room overy the lastronomical few months. But again we put that down to puberty/hormones/teen angst. But for a school to say "ok, you can have private tutoring so you can wear your piercings and have your hair how your want it"... is that really a done thing these days? Surely all teens would be getting private tutoring if they all complained they were depressed because they don't like uniform rules?!

I feel there's more to this that my DH isn't being told. Because as well as DSS being a fiber, so is his mother. And sometimes they lie as a pact to hide things from DH.

What do you think? DH seems to have swallowed all this, but I don't buy it. I haven't said anything, but I don't think it's fair that DH is constantly lied to and kept in the dark about things concerning his son.

dh has a right to request to see data concerning his ds. Ds doesn't need to know.
If he stays with you then you and dh need to be informed so that you can care for him. If he had any other illness you would expect to be informed.

I agree there's more to this than meets the eye. As someone else said it is probably related to his depression and self harm - and I think I'm right in saying that the education authority usually only provide tutoring for 1 hour a day to fulfil their obligations.

Some asked why you were trying to get to the root of DSS's depression and was critical, but I think that's something that does need to be investigated. I don't want to alarm you but bi polar has a hereditary component (I don't mean anyone with bi polar is going to pass it on) but that could be the case, and it often comes on in the adolescent years. Mind living in a 2 bed flat with his bi polar grand-dad can't be helping him very much. Sounds like he's lost his way a bit.

Re the lies my SD used to do this all the time - stupid lies bragging about stuff she'd done etc. I was very young then and didn't understand but I've since come to realise that kids who do this don't like themselves or feel that they aren't accepted for who they are, so they make up stuff in an attempt to sound more interesting.

I definitely think DSS's dad should have a meeting with the school to see what's going on. I reckon he could get more depressed stuck at home with his mom and grand-dad who can be violent - how long does he spend with you. Any chance he could spend longer with you.

He may have been referred to CAMHS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service) and if no he should be, as there is usually a waiting list. DSS might find it helpful to look at the website YoungMinds

Loads of teenagers tell lies to their parents about doing their homework. It's annoying but nothing special to worry about.

I agree with others saying many teenagers who are depressed find it incredibly hard to talk to their parents about how they're feeling. Don't think it's a conspiracy against your dh-it's likely his mother is in a similar position. If his son won't talk about the depression and cuts contact when your dh pushes him on it, isn't it better to try and go through cahms for information on this and save their time together for doing nice things? The school should be able to update him on the situation there. It sounds like communication with the ex is fraught at best so your dh's best plan is not to try and rely on his ds to tell him about his progress but to contact the people involved with him directly to stay updated with what's going on. There's no need for the son to even know about this.

OP I am sure your Dh is a good dad to your child.

But he isn't being a good dad to his son. There is something going on and he needs to get to the bottom of it.

Especially with there being violence in the home.

Get funding for at home tutoring surely isn't as easy as 'my son is depressed' is it?

littleleftie I think you are being unnecessarily critical of the OP who seems to be a very caring SM who is trying to do her best for her SS and his dad is worried because his ex will prevent him seeing the boy if she thinks he's trying to get too close.

Ok look if you really think that talking to the school is not an option for your dh, then what are your/his options? Either you take your son at face value when he says that he is depressed, has self harmed and is now being tutored at home at state expense, or you decide that some element of this is false and investigate it somehow (but not by asking the school). If your dh is worried that his going into school to speak to the teachers will alienate his son (not sure how that works, as he wouldn't even have to tell the ds or his dm) then asking him questions to the and disprove what he is saying about his own mental health isn't exactly going to bring them closer together is it? So even if there are elements of falsehood in what the ds has said, there really isn't any scope for investigating them without damaging the relationship. So you're actually only left with the being supportive and caring and understanding option. So I guess you should put your energy into that. Talk to the ds in a way he's comfortable with, show him you care and that you're there for him etc. personally I think his dad's getting more involved in his education would be a great way of demonstrating that he cares, but perhaps it would cause more upset. Anyway, play it by ear, but stop focusing on lies and manipulation as it will be noted by the boy.

Yes NanaNina, that's true. I've said this to DH that bipolar can sometimes be hereditary. And if DSS is in our care we DO need to know about these things. Not because we want to criticise or scrutinise, but so we can support him properly, and educate ourselves on the best way to do that. How can we possibly do that if DSS and DSS's mum are actively keeping info from DH? And freezing him out if he dares to try?

We would like DSS to stay with us more, so he has a bit more peace. But he doesn't want to. Because DH has expressed an interest at being more involved, and tactfully trying to get 'in' without causing any animosity (which would ultimately make things worse for DSS) his visits have become less and less. We used to see him every weekend. Now its around every 4-6 wks. Whenever DH drops DSS or his ex a text asking how DSS is, he's ignored. If he calls, they never answer.

But I will take a look at the website you suggest. Thank you

Piss-poor parenting from where I stand. Aged 15, he can make his own mind up if he sees his dad or not. Or are you suggesting mum is going to lock him in the house? The school will not tell on your DH. They don't phone mum and say 'the ex has just asked for a report...can we send him one?' Neither the ex nor the son ever need to know. Parent-teacher meetings take place away from prying pupil eyes - your DSS would never have known if his father turned up at any meetings he himself wasn't involved in.

What is he going to do? Dither around the edges and not actually get to the bottom of what is going on? If he cares about his son - truly cares - he needs to know what's going on. Only then will he be in a position to help him. If he believes both the son and the ex are lying then contact the bloody school himself!

Your DH is letting his ds down by not contacting the school for fear of upsetting ds. When you're a good parent you have to do things that upset your dc's, quite a lot! Your DH is putting his own needs, (his need not to affect contact) above his son's needs, (his need to have both parents in on the loop of what is happening). You husband needs to approach all the agencies involved with your ds, school, cahms etc and ask to be sent a copy of paperwork that goes to the resident parent.

And why did you need to mention she was on benefits? It's incredibly hard to get home tutoring. INCREDIBLY.

Theycallme - We have not said to DSS we think he's lying. In fact we never pull him up on his wild stories as we don't wish to embarrass him. We know he's a mixed up boy and makes these stories up to make his life seem better. But that's why it hurts. It's sad he's THAT unhappy. We WANT to make his life better, but can't if DH is not allowed.

Asskicker - that's the point of my post, that's exactly what I'm saying.

However, neither of us were aware that DH could contact school and they wouldn't inform his mum. I'll discuss that with him. It may be a way of him keeping a quiet eye on his education. DH would just love for him to get some decent grades and go to college. Where hopefully he'll need like minded people who share the same interests. Hopefully bringing him some happiness and acceptance

I think it would be pretty impossible for the ex to stop her 15yr old son from seeing his Dad, if he really wanted to see him.

So you're left with a 15yr old boy, who has decided for whatever reason to shut his Dad out.

I think that's what his Dad needs to get to the bottom of...not the issue of why he's being tutored at home.

I split from my ex when my son was 11. He also moans about not being spoonfed information the same way that he was when we were together.

School newsletter is on the website. Parents without Internet access can request a paper copy mailed to them. The newsletter contains dates of school events and information about what's going on in school. The website has the contact details of heads of year etc if he wanted to discuss his son's academic or emotional contact. Ds was under CAMHS care and the CAMHS number is on the website. Ex has never contacted them with regards to Ds' problems.

Your h needs to be proactive. School has to give information on his son and not doing anything because fear of the ex is ridiculous. If the ex doesn't want to work with you on a common strategy then your h needs to find out details from the relevant agencies and work out what he's going to do.

A child who is depressed, self harming, educated out of school and lives in a two bedroom flat with a bipolar volatile grandparent camped on the sofa is NOT being cared for by the father who doesn't even know the facts or how he is day to day. Would you allow YOUR child to be treated like this?

NO! That's the bloody point! That's why I've posted asking for some practical advice on how we can help, how we change this without making things worse for him. But all I've had so far is people saying my DH is a "piss poor" and "neglectful" parent. He absolutely isn't! He has spent hour upon hour, sleepless night after sleepless night agonising about what he should do. He just doesn't know!

And you bitches have been no help whatsoever.

And you bitches have been no help whatsoever.

You have been told over and over again that you only need to contact the relevant people to get the information and this should have been happening for the last few years but I'm beginning to wonder if that's not what is wanted but instead your husband wants to step in and tell everyone what to do rather than find out things.

Yes I have this vision of OPs DH "agonising" but doing nothing as he "isn't allowed." How convenient

If I told my DS15 he couldn't see his DF he would laugh in my face. This is DSS choice. All this guff about XW controlling the situation is bollocks frankly. YOu sound intelligent OP and I am surprised you are swallowing it. Is DH this docile about everything?

Ya know what, I feel for your DP. It sounds like a tough situation. And I can certainly see how the mum could be separating her son and his dad - one of my friends went through something very like this at secondary.

First steps:get onto the school and ask for reports/explanations for why he isn't in mainstream. Ask to talk to their guidance counsellor, who probably spent a bit of time with dss.

It does seem a difficult situation.

It sounds as if your OH is thinking he can't do right for doing wrong..

Sadly I don't think there is any way your OH is going to get an 'true overview' of his son's issues UNLESS he contacts the school.

It's the old metaphor of breaking eggs to make omelettes!

Yes his son may not like it, and assuming OH has parental responsibility there is no reason why he cannot do this without recount to the mother or the son.

This needs to be done sooner than later, as DSS gets older there is an increasing case for a school to say I'm sorry the student has said he doesn't want you told any information (this has happened in several cases I've worked with).

I used to work with kids who weren't in school. Variations on this would happen a lot.

Sometimes it's just a case of gritting your teeth and doing it. He can also approach it from the perspective of a loving parent... Eg tell the school. I'm increasingly worried re my son and his emotional state. I don't have regular contact with his mother about his progress. Please arrange for me to be copied into reports and also any letters written about him.
Also give your phone number - this indicates to the school you are willing and able to be involved.

And... He needs to have all copies about the decision to offer the son out of school support....

This is often pretty bad for kids education, as they miss so much school. I think legally it only has to be 5 hours a week... Often it's only offered as a last resort.

And you bitches have been no help whatsoever

how rude!!

Your dh has to step up and do something. Sleepless nights, hand wringing and agonising isn't helping anyone.

He is letting his son down. If the son chooses to stop seeing dh, at least he has tried.

He can't just keep not doing anything!

He absolutely isn't! He has spent hour upon hour, sleepless night after sleepless night agonising about what he should do. He just doesn't know!

I get that he must feel caught between a rock and a hard place, but he really needs to put his big boy pants on and stop taking the path of least resistance.

I'd suggest that you both make an appointment to go into his school and talk about what's going on. You can ask that duplicates of any correspondence are also copied to you, and hopefully they will be able to give you contact details of the people working with him on his mental health issues so you can also speak to them.

I realise your DH is concerned about making the situation worse, and tbh it may get worse before it gets better, but ultimately he will have done the best thing by his son who will hopefully realise that one day, rather than thinking in few years time 'When I was going through all that stuff, I know Dad loved me but why didn't he do anything'.

I'm the world's worst ditherer so I really do sympathise but if your DSS is 15 there is only a limited window in which your DH can easily intervene and try and set things on a more positive course.

How can he be home tutored in a very small house we both a violent relative living there?

Your dh needs to contact school and possibly ss to find out what's going on.

tbh your dh sounds a bit like my db. his daughter left school with few qualifications, got into a couple of access courses and failed (due to genuine health issues) and ended up on job seekers without a single interview for over a year.

db complained how he got a hard time from everyone when he tried to tell her that she needed to work harder to get a job or he would stop her maintenance. What he couldn't accept was, he didn't have a clue about the effort she was putting in, the issues she had and that the only person he would hurt by stopping the maintenance when dn wasn't working was her mum.

But more importantly he couldn't understand why it was so painful for dn when he suddenly started laying down the law and demanding to know exactly what she was doing each week to try to find a job. He hadn't bothered his arse getting involved or supporting her day to day emotional and educational development during her whole life. He hadn't attended a single parents evening, a single school show, karate competition, gp appointment, hadn't went to a single school meeting after she was eventually diagnosed with dyslexia at 11, hadn't got details of the counselling she was attending when she was depressed etc.

Has your dh been to the school to discuss his ds's progress and issues? Has he been to the gp to discuss his depression and how to support him?

My db will never recover from his hands off attitude with his dd(now 22) and their relationship is damaged forever. Your dh might still have time, but needs to be much more proactive and whether you like it or not he's had a lot of good advice and home truths on this thread. Lying in bed agonising and blaming others for the communication breakdowns isn't helping his ds.