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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not get schools issue with dyed hair?

1003 replies

fitforflighting · 06/01/2016 13:29

I suspect I may get flamed for this but I genuinely do not get it.
They have a rule against earrings including sleepers. That I get especially with younger children or in sports were children can end up getting them at worst ripped out.

I can kind of even get extreme haircuts with big shaved stars or strange styles that look unprofessional and might not be allowed by adults in a professional work place.

But this week and last term several of senior age children who had dyed hair brown/red/dark purple etc were sent home from school to re dye or put in isolation by teachers with errr brown/red/purple dyed hair! One of the children's teacher has bright purple hair. It does not make her any less of a English teacher or lesson her professionalism in school I don't reckon so what is the problem for teens?

OP posts:
teacherwith2kids · 07/01/2016 15:32

"the idea that you treat children as a separate class of people with different 'rules' governing polite forms of address"

Sofira, if your child - say 9-10 years old for the sake of argument - called their doctor 'Dr Smith', then you would expect the doctor in return to call your child 'Miss Jones'? And your child only to be called by their first name by the doctor if in return the doctor asked to be called by their first name?

teacherwith2kids · 07/01/2016 15:35

(I couldn't quite work up a realistic example involving the Bishop! Maybe my children move in the wrong circles....)

LordBrightside · 07/01/2016 15:39

"Actually, as Mooney and I discussed upthread, no, I would introduce myself as Title + surname and would prefer to address you in exactly the same way unless you asked me to call you firstname, in which case i would respond in the same fashion. "

At a barbecue? This would be exceltionally strange behaviour.

Sofiria · 07/01/2016 15:41

In an ideal world, yes. It's not something that I'd expect because I'm aware that most people don't think the way that I do and so it'd be unusual. I certainly wouldn't correct the doctor or make any kind of fuss about it. I'm know that it isn't how things are generally done. But I do think it'd be polite. Children learn manners by example, much of the time.

Children spend far much more of their time in the company of teachers than doctors, though. And there are schools where all staff are called by their first names. Not many, but they exist, and I don't think the teachers there would see themselves as any less professional than those in other schools.

teacherwith2kids · 07/01/2016 15:42

(I think it is confusing to the argument, btw, that the professional title for teachers is the same as the 'normal' formal title for all adults. In the school I work in, every adult working there, from cleaners and mid-day supervisors to the head, is addressed formally - by and in front of the children - and cheerfully by first name between adults outside class)

Sofiria · 07/01/2016 15:42

Ugh, I know, not I'm. Sorry!

teacherwith2kids · 07/01/2016 15:47

Well, Lord, at a BBQ it might well be 'Hi, firstname A meet my friend firstname B'. But if I was introducing myself to a completey new person who I had heard of but not met, it would be more along the lines of 'Hello, it's title surname, isn't it? I think I've heard of you from X. I'm title surname - firstname. Isn't the food lovely?' and then wait to see if they responded with their own firstname, in which case that would be how we'd progress.

LordBrightside · 07/01/2016 15:49

That's exceptionally odd. I don't say that to be barbed, but you should know that's odd.

teacherwith2kids · 07/01/2016 15:52

Lord, you should perhaps know that when I did those personality type things one does when training to be a middle manager in industry (in my previous life), I was always on the absolute extreme 'introverted' end of the scale...in fact, whatever they measured, on whatever occasion, I was always the one who was at the 'usually unused' bit of the scale. Quite happy to admit to being odd.

teacherwith2kids · 07/01/2016 15:58

[It also doesn't help that the last person i met at a BBQ was the candidate for a political party I don't support. I didn't really want to be on first name terms with him...]

Gileswithachainsaw · 07/01/2016 16:02

Yes I would find it odd too tbh.

but I'd also find it very odd that children I see every day and may even have had round the house or been round to theirs would call me "minigiles's mum"

that to me smacks of having to appear superior at all times. for gods sake call me giles I'll take my cue as to how respectful you are by how you behave towards me or my dd or in my house.

AppleSetsSail · 07/01/2016 16:26

I agree it's very odd to use Mr/Mrs/Dr at a BBQ.

LordBrightside · 07/01/2016 16:36

"It also doesn't help that the last person i met at a BBQ was the candidate for a political party I don't support. I didn't really want to be on first name term"

Fair enough! Smile

wannabestressfree · 07/01/2016 16:54

As detentions stand....
Lunch times are only allowed to take up 2/3 of lunch so they have time to eat. It's for behaviour infringements. Basically don't want to stay don't misbehave....
Ten minutes after school - Doesn't require parental consent.
We also run hour detentions that parents have to confirm that day.
We have a behaviour policy. If its not signed then a place cannot be taken and that includes Hair dye, piercings and shoe choices.
So Lord it won't ever affect you as your principles will prevent your child from signing and attending such schools.

LordBrightside · 07/01/2016 17:01

I will send my child to the most suitable school taking into account the quality of the school and its location in relation to our school.

School rules which are not lawfully enforceable will be cheerfully ignored at my discretion. I will simply opt my child out of those rules.

If a school wished to remove my child because of this, I would take the matter up with the local authority and begin legal proceedings.

Schools don't have any right to apply unlawful rules. Especially if those rules are stupid.

LordBrightside · 07/01/2016 17:04

"Ten minutes after school - Doesn't require parental consent."

I say otherwise. i've no issue with a teacher asking my child to stay back for a discussion, but it has to be optional. I will make it optional by giving him the option to refuse. The school can take up whatever concerns they have with me in that circumstance.

wannabestressfree · 07/01/2016 17:13

Of course you will with your no experience of the school system and a toddler..... Sure :)

longtimelurker101 · 07/01/2016 17:41

Lord, the school governors have a legal responsibility to "regulate the conduct of pupils" so yes the rules are legally enforceable. If you were to start legal proceedings, you would lose on these grounds.

As stated above, unless parents sign up to the behaviour policy in my school it is within the schools rights to with hold the place as well, it is also within the schools right to remove your child because the behaviour policy is not adhered to or backed by home as part of the agreement, in line with the legal responsibility above.

mathanxiety · 07/01/2016 17:47

Conduct and appearance are two different items.

longtimelurker101 · 07/01/2016 18:09

Its moved on from appearance math.

mathanxiety · 07/01/2016 18:21

Hotpatootie -- How many current students are going to end up working in the NHS? (Will there even be an NHS to work in in a few years time?)

How about people opting for dreadlocks or braiding or afro styles for their hair? How are organisations to police those styles without slighting traditional styles for people expressing a certain ethnic heritage? What about people of mixed ethnicity, or race if you want to call it that?

As for universities issuing rules about personal appearance -- I would hazard a guess that yours was in a minority of one.

Better for students to get all the eccentricity of appearance out of their system before they hit the workplace. American students seem to manage the transition from school to university and into the workplace just fine. There is no need to train children from age four that some workplaces and occupations will require uniform. Children see their parents heading out to work wearing suits, etc., and they understand this will be their lot some day, in places where school uniforms are not worn.

In my DCs' high school the teachers and admin staff are asked to wear 'professional attire' - which seems to me after a few years of observation to mean no jeans or shorts or yoga pants or other clothing that doesn't look 'smart' or 'smart bohemian'; suit and tie are not required, and tailored clothing is optional but what is asked is that their clothes are a step or two above what the students mostly wear. Hair colours are generally fairly natural for he teachers.

Things have changed quite a lot since the 80s in US schools. Students are not normally sent home for violations of dress code in US schools, as most schools have copped on that some students who are inclined to be truant could easily abuse that loophole. There is also heightened appreciation of discrimination in most schools, and a commitment to work hard to keep students with problems of all kinds engaged in school and making forward progress.

Schools therefore tend to gear discipline policies towards keeping students in the building and in an instructional setting. In most high schools I am familiar with a violation of dress code would have to be pretty egregious to warrant any intervention, but if there was a violation the consequence would be to wear a PE uniform over the clothing the student came to school in for the day, with home notified. Further infractions in increments of three would be treated with escalating degrees of intervention that would never include exclusion because it is clothing we are talking about here, not stabbing someone.

The reliance on the magical qualities of uniform is a really, really lazy and unimaginative approach to discipline and pedagogy.

mathanxiety · 07/01/2016 18:26

And dress code means in my DCs' school 'don't wear underwear as clothing' and 'no offensive slogans or graphics on your clothing' plus the rarely enforced 'no flip flops'. Low slung jeans are tolerated, as are spaghetti straps.

Hotpatootietimewarp · 07/01/2016 18:43

I have no idea about the future or the nhs in the future I'm talking about employers now and the relevance to the comment made by another poster

fitforflighting · 07/01/2016 18:49

Ours gives an hours detention with no notice which I hate as both mine have learning difficulties and then I end up worried where the hell they are.

Luckily mine behave really well and the only time they get detention is for forgetting kit and poor organisation you know because they have sen which affects organisation skills and all...

I have known them to prevent children leaving detention when the child has a medical appointment and that annoys me no end.

OP posts:
BoneyBackJefferson · 07/01/2016 18:52

Brightside

I look forward to your many many threads about the school system and how badly they have treated your son and or any other children that you may have.

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