To think i should be allowed to sleep!!

[Pancake2015]

Every single night my 5 and 7 year old are waking up between 2-3am. They dont go back to sleep and as im trying to i keep hearing them chat and whispering. I get increasingly frustrated as the nights go on. Now ive put one in my bed and im downstairs, so frustrated as im back to the bastard settee. I will not sleep with as they would love that and no doubt do it all the more. I wish i could stand not putting one in to my bed altogether, but after trying for two weeks and seeing me snapping at 3am and shouting, i realised it wasnt acceptable for my neighbours to also be forced awake by all of us!

Aibu to think a 5 and 7 year old should be able to sleep right through the night and i should be able to get at least 1 night a week to sleep properly before having to deal with the following day?
My patience has well and truly gone.

My 5 year old goes to bed between 7:15-7:45 and my 7 year old between 8:30-8:45 depending on how quickly 5yo falls asleep.
They did go at a reasonable time together but that ended up where they were awake until 12am messing about and again, i couldnt sleep.
I now find i struggle to go to sleep knowing theyre going to wake up. Then my eyes cant take anymore, i start dozing and then there is crash bang wallop and theyre up!!

Your 7 year old is playing you OP.
If they were scared or anxious then I would have sympathy but jumping off the bed says this is just being naughty.
Time to get really firm.
Lay down the lay, ask if they understand what will happen( no treats,tv etc) and then follow through.
Its hard I know because you are so tired but you have to take back the power.
This is very naughty and disruptive behaviour.

I love how you always post these articles and call them 'science' disappointed without actually thinking for yourself or checking the references...Ekrich's dubious study looks at sleep pre the Industrial revolution, which is completely irrelevant, as is yourself comparing our society to Spain. Most people do not have the opportunity to have the luxury of one or two sleeps at night and then a siesta in the day, which is why children must learn to sleep through the night, and which is why the OP is seeking help.
I'm still amazed you think it is biologically normal to wake up at 2am for the day

Where did insay it was normal to wake up at 2am for the day?

That's my whole point: there's no such thing as normal!

Most people do not have the opportunity to have the luxury of one or two sleeps at night and then a siesta in the day, which is why children must learn to sleep through the night, and which is why the OP is seeking help.

Well, if society is placing unreasonable expectations that go against the biology, perhaps it's society that should adapt. Just a thought. Isn't there a secondary school somewhere that has re-jogged it's start time and daily routine to better suit the biological needs of teenagers to sleep for longer?

No sleep is horrible - you have my sympathy. Is the older one waking the little one up? Can you somehow get through to them that's it's quite normal to wake up a little bit in the night (sleep cycles and all that) but they need to snuggle down and go back to sleep? Do they have a clock in their room? My middle one used to wake up all the bloody time and we eventually worked out that he thought that it must be morning because he'd woken up but really it was still the middle of the night!

Just so you know OP my 9 year old twins are waking up at the exact same time, they have always had the same routine and screen Time ends @5pm. One wakes the other up, I got fed up in the end a s til them to put the light on and read until they feel sleepy again. It hasn't stopped it but the one that wakes isn't getting me out of bed anymore, I don't punish but I agree if they are up in the night they go to bed no later than 7 30 to read, 8 lights off. HTH

2am - 3 am that is, like yours. ....

How much fresh air and exercise do they get during the day? It can make a big difference to sleep patterns.

something i believe should be possible to rectify with a talking to and an understanding from them for their age

My 7 year old tells me its wrong and not a kind thing to wake people up….He listens when i tell him

So basically you are saying that he knows its wrong and that he is choosing to do it anyway. Why do you think that is? Simples, it's because he knows that there are no consequences to his actions.

If the posted speed limit on the road is 35 mpg, but I know that if I speed down the road the police will pull me over and just say 'That's not nice, please don't do that again' but that nothing else will happen, guess what? I'm probably going to continue to drive too fast.

Is this your general parenting 'style'? That you simply talk to your children but there are never any consequences for their behaviour? Because if it is I'll save my breath to cool my porridge and wish you luck. You'll need it. If it's not and you do impose consequences, why do you feel this is any different than any other misbehaviour? I agree with a PP, you aren't imposing consequences for not sleeping, you are doing it for not being quiet and for waking his brother and disturbing you and most likely the neighbours.

No of course its not my general parenting style, and i have attempted consequences with this, i just havent stuck to a particular one. I mentioned earlier i was going to pick one and stick with it.
My reason for lacking was because it was so out of character, it was building up to christmas and i had put it down to excitement levels being heightened.
Talking at that point seemed a far better option than giving a consequence as i could understand how excitement can do such things. Especially to young children. My 11 year old struggled to fall asleep.
Obviously as time has gone on, it has spiralled and i have lost control over that particular situation due to lack of sleep, myself.

I mentioned earlier that i can see what needs doing, it is just finding that energy to be consistent with doing it when i am beyond tired when it happens.
I am determined to nip this in the bud as it is clearly affecting me to the point it has affected my ability to do what needs to be done.

If he is waking up, its not like he has just decided to switch himself on. I cannot give a consequence to him waking up. I can however give a consequence for the disruption he causes upon wakening. Which is what i need to summon the energy to deal with.

You are completely right in the fact he sees no consequences for his actions so he has no reason to stop.

I'm sure you'll get this taken care of, it'll just take time. It is hard to stick to one's guns when you're sleep deprived. Hopefully, you'll find the right consequence. I know when mine were younger for DS1 it would have been revoking his 1/2 hour of TV before bedtime. For DS2, it would have been no story. So each child has their own achilles' heel!

As a thought, do you have anyone who might be able to take one of the boys (or both) overnight this weekend? I think that it may help you to be able to get at least one unbroken night's sleep and maybe even a lie-in the next morning.