To think i should be allowed to sleep!!

[Pancake2015]

Every single night my 5 and 7 year old are waking up between 2-3am. They dont go back to sleep and as im trying to i keep hearing them chat and whispering. I get increasingly frustrated as the nights go on. Now ive put one in my bed and im downstairs, so frustrated as im back to the bastard settee. I will not sleep with as they would love that and no doubt do it all the more. I wish i could stand not putting one in to my bed altogether, but after trying for two weeks and seeing me snapping at 3am and shouting, i realised it wasnt acceptable for my neighbours to also be forced awake by all of us!

Aibu to think a 5 and 7 year old should be able to sleep right through the night and i should be able to get at least 1 night a week to sleep properly before having to deal with the following day?
My patience has well and truly gone.

My 5 year old goes to bed between 7:15-7:45 and my 7 year old between 8:30-8:45 depending on how quickly 5yo falls asleep.
They did go at a reasonable time together but that ended up where they were awake until 12am messing about and again, i couldnt sleep.
I now find i struggle to go to sleep knowing theyre going to wake up. Then my eyes cant take anymore, i start dozing and then there is crash bang wallop and theyre up!!

Good ol' American South names. BEW-furd and Yoo-LISS-eeze.

NOT the names of my own sons, btw. I wouldn't have been that mean.

Yes, on another note, sympathies for the lack of sleep. It's excruciating, you can't be your best when you are tired. I hope too that you can find time to catch up and feel a bit better/refreshed/stronger to deal with lively children.

Aibu to think a 5 and 7 year old should be able to sleep right through the night

YAB absolutely U. Nobody sleeps right through the night. Humans are hard wired not to!

www.parentingscience.com/night-wakings.html

I'd explain that it's ok for them to wake up but not to disturb anyone else. (also white lie about neighbours complaining about all noise in night). Unless they use toilet they have to stay in bed and be quiet. They are old enough to understand.

Have a star chart for each night you're not disturbed/they sleep through and treat to cinema or similar.

No other advise really sorry.

I had a bad sleeper and now an early riser. One thing I've learned is to do what I have to do to get sleep.
So if one of them is in with you either on the floor or in bed then they can't mess about with each other and bad habits can be broken.
Then at a later date you can tackle the co sleeping.
it's possible that they don't need much sleep I guess but I doubt they'd both be like that.
More likely they have just got into a habit of waking up and being unable to self settke and prefer to get up and piss you off which is naughty.
My 4 yr old knows not to wake us up untill the sun is on her clock, she doesn't always adhere to It but she knows it's wrong.
Watch the screen time as well. It can seriously affect the bodies ability to sleep.
Which one wakes first? Id get him in with you so the other can sleep. Then you can help the waker back off.

They are tired when they go to bed as they do fall asleep fairly quickly.

This could be a problem too. Falling asleep too quickly can be an indicator of being overtired, which then reduces the amount of sleep the body will allow. Shall find you an article on it.

Can you focus on the getting out of bed, jumping around and chatting rather than the waking up?

So if they wake up in the night they are allowed to listen to audiobooks on their Walkman/MP3 player/whatever or read with one of those small book reading lights?

At least they won't disturb you, and they will be more likely to go back to sleep.

Also could you put something between their beds so they can't see each other? Harder to drop back to sleep if you see you sister is awake too.

I would move 5 year olds mattress into your room. At least then they can't play with each other when they wake

Ulysses as an American South name? Er.......maybe, but probably more commonly known as, you know, the Latin name for Odysseus.

OP - If it's just the whispering keeping you awake, could you try just using ear plugs? Or have you tried that to no avail?

My DM used to deal with night time shenanigans by setting me extra homework, too.

I lasted three nights. And I wrote a brilliant story about a monster. I still have it.

Maybe try one in your bed and you sleep in their bed in the children's room, that way they can't disturb each other.

One thing that helps with my DC when they can't sleep is
www.amazon.co.uk/Bedtime-Meditations-Kids-Calm-Christiane-Kerr/dp/1901923908

I put one on and it usually gets them off to sleep.

Do they watch cartoons in the morning? If so.Id be saying every morning they wake you there will be no tv.

If you hear them awake at 2-3am, can you happily stroll in with dusters, turn lights on, and say, 'oh good, you are awake, I thought this would be a good chance to get our house nice and clean' and keep them up cleaning 'you can go to bed now if you promise to sleep and stay asleep', or if that sounds harsh, fins some homework for them to do at the kitchen table. Say things like, 'if you insist on being up, lets be productive'

My and my sister would never utter the words 'I'm bored' to my parents as they would bring out the homework/chores if we did. This could work with the sleeping for your two?

In the evening, I'd be inclined to say 'I'll come in at 1.45am and wake you for our nightly clean, its so handy having you awake to help mummy'

My oldest is a poor sleeper.
"It's night time, go to sleep" got met with "I can't sleep, I'm not tired" sort of responses. We have moved to "its night time and I want to sleep, please stay quietly in bed and rest" ie I'm not telling him to do something he thinks he can't (ie sleep)

What about a blow up mattress in the living room or landing for the child, while you stay in your bed?

I Know with young kids if they keep waking up at the same time its habit so you budge them to disturb their sleep i.e make them whine a bit but not fully awake. Do that for 3 nights or a week from 2am since thats when they wake up, should work, always has for me. If its random times theyre hungry snack straight to bed and at dinner stuff them bit more lol.

my 2 girls were messing about too 5 and 8 but 3 yr old knocked out. It was due to hols all sorted now.

Good luck i know lack of sleep plus kids to deal with is a nightmare

Get earplugs, and give them stories on an mp3 player to listen to instead of disturbing everyone else.

Yanbu but really yabu not to have gone nuclear by now.
They are 5 and 7 and perfectly able to understand what they are doing.
No chores or housework in the night- its not a game
Serious, stern chat about what they are doing, what the expectation is and what the consequences will be.
If one wakes and then wakes the other then ballet, swimming, dance or whatever they like doing is cancelled for that week and as they will be "too tired" ,any parties/play dates cancelled for that week.
When they whinge about no party etc then remind them why.

I would expect that it will take one round of you following through and they will stop.

I would drop the bedtime drink and any drink less than 1 hour before bed. They are probably getting up to do a wee and then the other one wakes the other one up to chat, as it is now a habit.

Yes, I would put a mattress on floor of room, blow up, or you could get a cheap sofa chair thing. I would do that for around a week to break the habit and then a chart for every night they don't wake up with a treat (trip to cinema?) after 5 nights in a row.

I have never done reward charts for things they should just being doing- it implies its optional.

Firm chat with clear consequences and then follow through. No ballet/party/playdate because you woke and messed around in the night "you are too tired"
No moving around into different beds, you want them to sleep in their own beds.

I think you are right one is waking the other. Give as little verbal attention as possible. " Time for sleep." Put them back to bed if out and repeat. Hard for a few nights but should work after a few days. I think it is just all the excitement and stimulation from Christmas. No games, computers after tea as this has been proven to over stimulate little brains. Perhaps a. Sticker chart and a small treat like a Saturday visit somewhere, if they complete a week. Then move the goalposts for the next treat say a fortnight slightly better treat. Not presents but some time doing something together. So first might be a drink in a cafe( kids love this) and the next one an afternoon at a free museum or time at home baking. Sleeping = mum's attention.
If this doesn't work you could ask the teacher to have a word. We support parents when things like this happen sometimes a word with the child is enough.

Sorry but I really disagree politely that they should get treats for going to bed and staying there.
Its a perfectly normal expectation and it implies that its optional ( their choice)to sleep and not muck around.
Its not.

Get firm.
They are 5 and 7 FGS not babies, they are perfectly able to understand that this behaviour is NOT ON.
Sleeping= normal expectation , it shouldn't be tied to treats being given or parents attention being given/withdrawn.

Why are you questioning your right too sleep, you poor tired mum!

This is what I would do. Sit them at the table and have a chat with them about waking up and making noise. Tell them how it makes you feel, that your old and you need your sleep or you feel sick. Tell them it has too stop. Of course, they are both old enough to stop talking. They're in a routine so it will continue to happen every night. Let them talk as long as they listen to you, but try to have a discussion so that they understand the 'it's a problem' for you the neighbors may call the police (a little white like:-).

Then explain what the consequences will be if they don't do their fair share of helping to stop this serious problem. Expect it too take a few nights before they get the message.

I'm not sure how good my advise is. In all honesty I feel a bit like a hypocrite because I distinctly remember putting ear plugs and going back to sleep at one stage with my own kids. Good luck!

Later bedtime. Also One child is waking the other child up. Split them up. Make them sleep separately. Tell them they can look at books by torchlight or listen to audio stories with ear phones if they wake up. Have the items ready to use. Nothing more. They are banned from waking the other person up.

Reward for sleeping through or not waking the other person. A favourite breakfast