For not wanting to force 17 year old to holiday with us?

[SnotBagMaterial]

DH and I are about to book a holiday for us and our children - 5 nights in New York.

'Our' children are my 15 year old, my 17 year old, his 19 year old and his 20 year old.

However, my 17 year old said he doesn't want to go. For one thing he doesn't want to go on a 10 hour flight there and back for the sake of 5 days and secondly, he doesn't want to spend 5 days with the other boys. He and his youngest brother don't get on and he dislikes the 20 year old. He says he much would prefer to get £100 or so to do things with his mates here.

I think he should be allowed the option plus - he's not much fun on holiday anyway and tends to moan and complain about everything so on selfish grounds - the holiday would be easier without him!

dH thinks I should force him to come with us.

AIBU to allow him to stay home if he wants to? He's mature and capable of looking after himself do that isn't the issue.

My risk assessment, for example, is a 99% probability that six teetotal geeks would play an eyewatering amount of World of Warcraft, punctuated by a certain amount of snogging and possibly more. 1% probability that a naive Twitter message bringing the hordes around. The seatbelt analogy is a good one .

And of course I can understand if you have had your house trashed you would be wary.

My brother used to stay at home when he was 16 onwards when we went on holiday abroad. It was all totally his choice.
If you think your 17 year old is mature enough then I see nothing wrong with him staying at home.

OTOH - there must be loads of teenagers who are left like this, are safe, don't have wild parties and don't have their houses gatecrashed.

And?

There are loads of houses that aren't burgled but I still lock all the doors when I go out.

I stayed at home at 16 and had my boyfriend over. We did nothing except laze around in bed and eat to many chips and ice cream. Not all teenagers want wild parties or are daft enough to tell others their parents are away.

I don't think you can force him to go and whether you can trust him home alone entirely depends on him.

Some teens are much more mature and responsible than others.

Having said that, from my own teenage years, small parties for a few friends can often end up gatecrashed and out of control.

I stayed at home at 16 and had my boyfriend over. We did nothing except laze around in bed and eat to many chips and ice cream. Not all teenagers want wild parties or are daft enough to tell others their parents are away.

I would have been the same. I think this stereotype that teenagers all want wild parties is a bit daft and people refer too much to what happens in movies.

At 16 he can leave home without your approval, so leave him home if that's what he wants.

Go and have a great holiday without him spoiling the time away.

I don't get this treating teens over 16 as children rather than adults. Have you left him before? Does he know how to feed himself with food left? Does he know who to contact in case there is a problem? Or in an emergency?

Give a teen some responsibility and they often live up to it, most teens are not monsters and are really lovely people who look out for each other.

There was no way I could have left the 15 year old at home, however much he begged me.
He would have a stream of 'Monster' drinks and sat on the computer day and night. All lights in the house would be on constantly. I imagine he would have invited his mates round too. Whether they would invite their mates too, I don't know.
Im hoping the two years will make a big difference. :)

I was left at home from 16 onwards and not forced to go on holidays and it was fine.

I've done the same with my children and they've been fine.
If you trust your children it's good for them and good for their independence.

If you don't trust your children and/or they're a bit immature that's a different matter.

I opted out of family holidays not long after I turned 15. Got fed up of the parents' frequent squabbles. The goalposts got moved so I ended up doing two more summer holidays with them (complete with their squabbles) but I firmly called it a day afterwards. I was 17 and never happier to be at home with some peace and quiet. No parties, mind you. Times were different then.

Yanbu op. Don't force him he will resent you and ruin it for everyone else, I stopped going on family holidays at 16 but hated the last family holiday I had at 15 and basically was a miserable cow who ruined it for my brother, he still remembers it now and it was 30 years ago. As for leaving him at home on his own, you know your own child and whether that's a good idea, just cause he could get married and have kids as others keep saying that doesn't mean it's the right thing for your child.

I think this stereotype that teenagers all want wild parties is a bit daft and people refer too much to what happens in movies

I went to a lot of wild parties as a teenager. It's fairly common.

Some parents in 2015 are apparently as naïve as in the 80s.

There is nothing unusual about my teenagers. Nor are we starring in a "movie". We can all say how trustworthy our own offspring are blah blah, but I certainly cannot speak for the friends and extended friends group they mix with.

My DD learned the hard way that you cannot really control what happens when things go pear shaped and you are used to your parents knowing what to do.

When I was 17 I was already working full time and long shifts, so was out of the house from 8am to 10pm usually. My mum went on holiday with my younger sister for a week and there was NO WAY I wanted to tag along. My mum freaked out about the idea of me being home alone so she asked my Grandma to stay for a week.

Not sure how helpful this was as basically it meant my Grandma phoning me at least twice a day at work to ask me how to switch the cooker on (she'd never used an electric oven) or what was that contraption in the garage (a tumble dryer), or where the hell had my mum stashed the ironing board.

Anyway, OP if you trust your son to be sensible, you've had a chat about social media and not throwing parties etc and how these things can get out of hand, and you make sure he has a clear plan of who to call in an emergency (power outage, water leak, emotional crisis), then I'd go for it. Why would you want to pay for his flight just to have him putting a downer on everyone's holiday?

Plus assuming you'll have WiFi in the place you're staying, you can Skype him every day anyway to make sure all is okay. You can even make him show you the house on camera to ensure there's no wild partying

Twinklestein I'm anything but naive, he's 22 now and been to more than a few "wild parties" since his teens, and the stories he's told about them are fantastic. Thankfully he hasn't had any and trashed my house. When he was 18 he invited his closest pals round and me and his Dad went out for the night. Think there were about a dozen lads in my living room when I popped my head round the door to say goodnight. In the morning they had even put all the empties in the recycling! Trusting him doesn't make me naive.

I'd leave him at home, with food spare £20 but with a couple of phone numbers of people you both trust that could help in whatever type of emergency he may have including a potential party that gets out of hand.

My parents left me from 16 upwards on my own for a few holidays, I just had friends/ boyfriend round but I did have a massive party one year at around 18 with around 60 people coming and the only casualty was an orange drink spilt on a rug and a smashed glass. People who stayed over helped clean up we even hired a carpet cleaner! In fact I'd say be wary of coming home to any house cleaner than when you left it that's party guilt right there

Doublechip when we came back from France my kitchen was completely spotless. A few days later my DS showed me a picture of it, the sink in particular the day we were due home. All I can say is he must have been very very busy!!!

So - are you saying you wouldn't let a 17 yr old stay at home?

No.

You seem to be saying that not letting a 17yr old stay at home is the same as locking doors because you are "preventing" something that could happen from happening

No I'm not. I am saying that we all do things to protect against the chance of something happening. You said that the house wouldn't get trashed because only couple of stories about it happening ever hit the news. I was comparing that comment with the analogy of locking doors despite many houses not being burgled.

Let him stay your husband is being silly why spoil the holiday for everyone for the sake of being stubborn.

No: there are different levels of precaution. Locking the door when you go out is similar to advising a teenager to keep quiet on social media to avoid gatecrashers, and arranging for someone to pop round and keep an eye. Refusing to let a 17 year old be at home alone is similar to never leaving the house.