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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think selfishness is inherently bred into men?

108 replies

Notimefortossers · 03/01/2016 20:58

Literally never met a man that didn't put himself first. Give me some hope MN'ers . . . there are unselfish men out there . . . right?

OP posts:
Notimefortossers · 03/01/2016 22:31

Thanks Princess. It is, but there are worse things I guess! Ho hum . . .

Thing is, my DH was a real safe bet selfishness wise! I knew him for 6 months before we got together. He was in a caring profession and REALLY good at it (rare), gave (still gives) to charity, cares about the world . . . who'd have thought?!

That's just like us Vivienne. DH thinks nothing of blowing off an accepted invitation because he doesn't happen to feel like it that day, where I'm like, 'Er no! That's fucking rude! They'll have bought/cooked for us. We've said we're going so we have to go!' Drives me mad. Then I end up making excuses for him to our hosts, which very often involves lying, which I HATE! But he has no ability to see that this particular behaviour of his puts pressure on me

OP posts:
notmyproblem · 03/01/2016 22:34

Yes, this is exactly what I do and what I worry my children are absorbing. However, if I didn't do it, it wouldn't get done, so what's the alternative?

Notimefortossers too late, despite your MN moniker. You clearly have time for tossers if you insist on doing things to enable your DH's selfishness, just for an easy life.

Not having a dig at you, but reread what you just wrote and think about it. You're not at all preventing your DC from absorbing yours and your DH's habits if that's how you really behave in your relationship.

bettyberry · 03/01/2016 22:35

I take care of myself and every other fucker, but it it comes to the crunch and it's a choice between my DC's needs or my own, then they win. That is only true of them though - not every other fucker

But you can only do that to a point. When it starts affecting your health you need to put yourself first and that's what I have to do. So if that means I don't take DS out when promised because I am sick I will be selfish and stay home because I'll just be really ill for longer if I don't rest. Just like if I'm half asleep in the AM he'll have to wait for breakfast because the last thing I want to do is burn myself I'm a clumsy fucker when I'm barely awake and burnt my hand on a kettle last week It may only be a 30 min wait but wait he must!

Now I'm not saying you should abandon them completely but its healthier for you and them to not drop everything for them. Unless they need rushing to A&E!

Just to be clear I am a single parent so I don't really have anyone else to pick up the slack. I do everything and meet all my DS's needs. He just has to wait because they wont always be met immediately. Its impossible to.

roundaboutthetown · 03/01/2016 22:36

Well, a lot of my female friends have very caring male partners, like my dh and df. I had a male and a female role model when I was growing up - my dm and my df - and I think my male and female friendships are affected by that. I don't see why it should be a surprise that your friendships with both sexes follow a pattern and that, therefore, your choice of female friends may have more than their fair share of selfish partners that they tolerate than my choice of female friends, NameChanger.

Notimefortossers · 03/01/2016 22:40

It's not for an easy life. It doesn't make my life easy at all! It's because there's a lot that needs doing with 3 DC, a house and a job and if I didn't run round like a headless chicken, it wouldn't get done. I'm not prepared to live in a shithole or allow my DC's to suffer because he is inadequate!

And, selfishness aside, he's not a tosser. He has other redeeming qualities or I wouldn't still be with him. So I stand by my moniker Wink

No I'm not doing anything to prevent them absorbing our habits (hands up), but what is the alternative? What else should I do? That's a genuine question.

Also, no one is perfect so in theory ALL DC, everywhere in the world are going to absorb some kind of bad habits/behaviour of some description. Overall, I'm happy with our parenting . . . his selfishness just gets my goat!

OP posts:
NameChanger22 · 03/01/2016 22:43

roundaboutthetown I don't think that's the case at all. I'm not just talking about people I've chosen to become friends with, I'm talking about random encounters too, people I meet through work, friends of family, people I meet on holiday etc.

And how do you explain the state of the world without seeing man's selfishness at the heart of most of our problems. Most crime is committed by men, most violence is perpetrated by men, most wars are started by men, I could go on.

Notimefortossers · 03/01/2016 22:45

Roundaboutthetown

I'm the same as Namechanger in that all the men I've ever known are selfish. Family, friends, partners of friends. I think my maternal Grandfather was the only exception. I had a male and a female role model growing up. Do you really think we seek out friendships with people who have selfish DP/DH's?

OP posts:
notmyproblem · 03/01/2016 22:48

Say what you like, but to me it just sounds like you're the usual martyr... sorry. Of course you do it for an easy life, because the alternative is much harder. That being refusing to do it, dealing with the fall-out, making a point of training yourself out of martyrness and him out of selfishness. Then you come on here and complain that all men are selfish but fail to notice how you're enabling it? Have a closer look at yourself to find the real answers you're looking for.

Notimefortossers · 03/01/2016 22:57

I said upthread I don't even really understand the use of the term martyr on MN . . . I thought a martyr was someone that had been killed for their religious beliefs, so I don't even really get what you mean when you say that?

If you mean dealing with the fall out, as in having to allow my kids to suffer and watch that whilst we train ourselves . . . then yes, I guess that would be much harder than what I'm doing now and not something I'm prepared to do either.

I do try to train him out of selfishness, by asking him to do things and pulling him up when he behaves unacceptably (in my opinion), beyond that how else should I train him?

I never once complained that all men are selfish. I stated that in my experience they are and asked people to share nice stories of unselfish men in order to restore my faith in mankind!

I do notice that I am enabling it, to an extent, but as I've said repeatedly, I don't know what else to do.

OP posts:
NameChanger22 · 03/01/2016 23:00

There may be some martyr's out there but it's also too easy to blame the person who speaks out about the selfishness (the victim) than to blame the selfish person. The scapegoating that goes on in our society makes me want to weep.

I think men are selfish but I'm certainly no martyr - I have no men in my life. My life isn't hard or difficult at all, it's lovely now I only have nice people in it (all women).

WMittens · 03/01/2016 23:01

Literally never met a man that didn't put himself first. Give me some hope MN'ers . . . there are unselfish men out there . . . right?

Nope - I was very much brought up to put myself last, and now having to go through some work to unfuck my head.

BeanGirls · 03/01/2016 23:16

I'm definitely more selfish than my dh

roundaboutthetown · 03/01/2016 23:24

NameChanger - seems to me you are so busy noticing what you expect to see that you are utterly blinkered to anything that goes against your beliefs. There are lots of unselfish men in the world and plenty of utterly vile women. It takes all sorts! The world would be a far more screwed up mess than it is if all men were selfish.

Fairenuff · 03/01/2016 23:25

I personally feel that my children's needs should always come before my own, since they're little and didn't ask to be born!

That's fine when they are babies, but your 4 and 7 year olds are old enough to know that they may have to wait for something. If you keep putting them first, how will they learn not to be selfish?

Check your own behaviour first OP before you look to blame others. What needs to your older two dc have that really can't wait half an hour or so?

notmyproblem · 03/01/2016 23:27

I think the term martyr is used obviously as an exaggeration. But the modern definition in this context is something like "person who willingly suffers hardship in order to get sympathy".

Read some other threads, make some changes, and most importantly, have the guts to see them through.

He dumps his dirty laundry all over? Don't wash it. He doesn't have clean clothes for work? Too bad for him.

He lets you make plans then you end up having to apologise to your hosts because he doesn't want to go after all? Don't make plans with him. Say when invited "I'll come along but DH will have to let you know himself if he wants to go" and then if he doesn't look after himself, just go without him. No apology needed, you enjoy yourself. He realises at the last minute that he wants to go? Great, then he gets to grovel to your hosts as to why he's suddenly there expecting to eat when they thought he wasn't coming.

Under no circumstances do you apologise or explain anything for or to him. He's grown up, he can figure it out and do it himself. He'll either get it, or he won't.

Do you think he goes to work and treats his boss or colleagues the way he treats you? No, because he knows it's unacceptable and he can't get away with it. Does it bother you that he has more respect for them than he has for you? Time to put a stop to it then. Best do it now before years go by and this under the surface resentments manifests itself into actual dislike for a selfish manchild who made you responsible for him just like you are for your children.

There's loads more, just go and read all the threads written exactly by women in your situation. There are probably some good books worth reading too.

Or don't, but then don't complain when you raise a selfish DS and a put-upon DD.

FithColumnist · 03/01/2016 23:28

YANBU. All us men are inreherently selfish. Why we haven't moved to total gender segregation is a mystery to me. I'm assuming patriarchy.

roundaboutthetown · 03/01/2016 23:35

Notimefortossers - to a certain extent I think you must seek out friendships with people who are attracted to selfish men, as my experience has certainly not been of the men always being selfish and the women long suffering! I think quite a lot of my friends have rather lovely dh's, quite a few have have been the more selfish party and those who chose badly, I could tell when I met their partners, so don't know why they seemed so blind to or tolerant of it! I could only assume it was a mix of them thinking it was normal and being attracted to what they personally viewed as manliness, but others might have viewed as twatishness. Grin

NameChanger22 · 03/01/2016 23:37

roundaboutthetown You've come up with a number of theories tonight as to why I have a different opinion to you, none of which were correct - now you think it's because I'm "utterly blinkered" Hmm.

Are you living on a different planet to me I wonder?

roundaboutthetown · 03/01/2016 23:42

Fortunately for me, NameChanger, I appear to be - a far nicer planet, too. Grin You stay on your women-only one - that's absolutely fine by me. As for my theories - what ones are these? Are they the "theories" where I reverse your ludicrous opinions on brainwashing to make a point? Grin

NameChanger22 · 03/01/2016 23:57

A far nicer planet than it actually is maybe.

GingerLDN · 04/01/2016 01:38

My husband is the least selfish person I know. Truly.

TheHouseOnTheLane · 04/01/2016 02:02

My DH is the most unselfish person I know...he's all about giving. I know other men like him too....always put themselves last.

I'm only just realising (aged 43) that he needs more checking up on because he literally ignores his own needs...

roaringfire · 04/01/2016 02:21

Great post notmyproblem good advice for the OP, especially about accepting invitations.

Guiltydilemma · 04/01/2016 02:56

Husband is much much more selfish than me. Our son is much much less selfish than his sisters.

PrincessMouse · 04/01/2016 05:48

NameChanger it reads like you have had some shitty experiences with men. You have completely segregated yourself from men and have such a low opinion of what looks to be all men and a lot of women (with the brainwashed comment) I really don't think there is anything anyone can say that will ever change your mind. You may hear and read some crappy experiences that some women go through but people normally vocalise shitty experiences and ask for advice / support. It's much more unusual for people to vocalise the great relationships. Why? IMO, 1) they don't want to sound like they are bragging or 2) they don't need to say anything. They just happily and contently get on with there lives.

Notimefor. As things stand I am really sorry but I really don't think he will change. Things aren't bad enough for you to make him realise the consequences of his actions would be really bad. Eg LTB or threaten to
LTB (I am not saying you should LTB). Outside of offering some comfort that not all men are selfish there is little I can offer on the changing him front. However, you can do your best to bring your DC up so they hopefully don't follow his example.

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