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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder if anyone has actually Left The Bastard after MN said so, and regretted it?

109 replies

JeanneDeMontbaston · 31/12/2015 14:22

I keep seeing people say that 'LTB' is terrible advice. I know it puts people's backs up, especially when the OP is clearly not in a place to hear anything so blunt, or has a complicated situation that means she clearly can't just dash out of the door.

But I'm confused by the criticisms. Has anyone actually left their partner because other people (not necessarily just MN) said so? And if so, did you regret it?

I admit I'm biased, because MN did tell me repeatedly and firmly to leave my ex - who wasn't a bastard at all, but absolutely wasn't right for me and did have faults I shouldn't have had to put up with. And it was the right thing.

But I wonder, are there people who really do feel they were pressured into leaving a generally good relationship because of trivial faults? Or AIBU to think this is really pretty rare?

OP posts:
NoMore314 · 01/01/2016 00:09

There are some very misinformed confused people on this thread.

I didn't leave because I was told to. I was encouraged to believe that I had the right to leave. I was encouraged to realise that I didn't owe it to him to stay with him. I was relieved to know that other people didn't think that his shouting at me for hours was due to work stress. Or that calling me too fucking stupid to cook a ready meal was in any way normal. Or that him making all the financial decisions was something I had to accept for a quiet life. ON and on I could go. Nobody TOLD me what to do but they did remind me what normal was. And they reminded me that it wasn't unreasonable to expect to be happy. And they gave me that little tiny bit of optimism I needed to leave, so that I could do the scariest thing I ever had to do with a tiny bit of optimism that life could improve.

fuzzywuzzy · 01/01/2016 00:49

I also think posters using their own examples is encouraging to op's in abusive situations. It shows them that LTB is possible it can be done it has been done.

Usually advice to LTB is accompanied by practical advice as well.

And I've seen lots of threads with OP's wanting to make a go of their marriage with posters offering advice on what to expect and how to cope and get thro the emotional turmoil and still remain happily married.

What nobody ever does is insist that OP should stay and fight for the marriage or be patient and put up with crap.

Of course people use their own examples to help and make suggestions to the OP's.

I don't think I've come across posters who want everyone to miserable or single forever etc. that's pretty horrible way of looking at the support offered by posters.

I reckon and I'm definitely one of these posters, I have a much lower tolerance for crappy behaviour from partners now. But I say it from the start. do tend to suggest alternatives to LTB unless the behaviour is abusive.

fuzzywuzzy · 01/01/2016 00:50

Second paragraph is with reference to staying in marriages after partners have confessed to affair

Canyouforgiveher · 01/01/2016 03:23

I think there are posts where it is quite obvious the OP should leave - like where there is violence etc. And I think it helps for the OP to hear a chorus of LTB in this case - considering she is hearing a chorus of "this is normal put up with it" from the man she lives with. Where it sometimes gets sticky is when posters get offended because she isn't leaving immediately.

But I also think there are instances where someone posts about a relationship and it isn't actually abusive but it is horrible. where he sometimes calls her a cunt/won't help her even though she is sick/pregnant etc/acts like he doesn't like her/fecks off to help his family or drink with his friends rather than spend time with her for example).

They deserve better but maybe they are putting up with crap because no one has pointed out to them that they deserve to be treated the best by their partner in life. A website like this is a rare chance for someone to see the way other people live in their intimate lives and can be eye-opening in terms of what you deserve in life I think.

LionHearty · 01/01/2016 03:39

I agree Canyou.

Twgtwf · 01/01/2016 03:44

I agree very much with Doitanyways, DionetheDiabolist, and several others expressing the same views. Very often, the "advice" to LTB is put in a very abusive way. Yes, abusive, to a woman who is already quite possibly being abused. Nice, eh? It is also often very clear that the person shouting LTB is projecting, and cares nothing for anyone but themselves. It is sickening to see that abuse of women on a site set up to support women.

Potatoface2 · 01/01/2016 05:23

I once said on here that my oh doesn't switch the light off when he comes to bed and I was told LTB !

Canyouforgiveher · 01/01/2016 05:36

Twg are you seriously comparing a man being violent to his wife with someone on an anonymous internet forum stridently telling that wife to leave him? You would use the word abusive to describe both of these situations? And you are sickened by women advising someone to leave? Absolutely weird.

Enjolrass · 01/01/2016 06:34

canyou TWG isn't comparing them and saying they are the same.

But it's does happen and having a go at a poster because she doesn't feel she can leave is abusive and bullying. The thread I posted about is an example of people getting nasty because she wouldn't leave. It was awful.

A vulnerable pregnant woman who was being abused was getting support and was made to feel worse.

She was experiencing worse at the hands of her husband, but that doesn't mean what happened here was ok

doitanyways · 01/01/2016 07:59

Canyou, frankly, yes, I would compare the two.

Women's aid identifies a number of different types of abuse. As you know, physical violence is just one of them. Obviously, no one can be physically violent on an Internet message forum.

Bullying, however, is far from just physical violence. It includes sulking (does that happen on here?) name calling, aggressive language and isolation - posters do pile on one person.

So Mrs X admits that she's frightened of her partner and he does call her horrible names like 'fat cunt' in front of the children and tells her she's useless all the time. She comes on here and she gets a load of women demanding, in aggressive terms, why she is still there, why is she prepared to let her children put up with that? Poster A tells Mrs X she'd have walked out before he even finished the phrase 'fat cunt' and even though Mrs X realises that's probably an exaggeration, she wonders why these women wouldn't tolerate it when she has to, and she's definitely no choice as she can't leave: there's no money and besides, they don't see how lovely he is sometimes.

I was being bullied once. My mother said in very shrill, demeaning tones 'I wonder why it's always you?' That hurt, lets put it that way! (By the way, the reason it was always me was because I had no confidence at all can't think why and I have confidence now and it's unusual for anyone to try any crap, but it took one hell of a long time.)

Or how about the 'bad mother' line? That's NOT the same as 'think of the children' but again, it's how it's presented, although unhelpfully I am now thinking of the Simpsons character!

Asking rhetorical question after rhetorical question about how you would feel if any number of things happened in the future to your children isn't going to make someone leave. I've seen it, oh, numerous times and it's madness.
Poster A - how would you feel if your son grew up and started hitting your daughter?
OP - I'd be sad and disappointed
Poster A - this will happen unless you leave, your son is learning it's OK to hit women
OP- its not that easy
Poster A - so you're basically saying you're OK with your daughter being hit and your son turning into an abuser

That conversation is one that needs to be had - but not like that. Why? Because it's what her husband or partner already does! He's probably already telling her she's a shit mother, and he just may have friends or family supporting him on that. He's already probably telling her any special needs they have is because of her. He's already twisting what she's saying and doing to suit his own agenda.

Terrified animals, when cornered, have one final defence. They retreat completely and become totally passive. Fight is pointless, if you're a rabbit cornered by a stoat, there's nowhere to fly to and you are going to be killed and eaten. The body has one final defence and it effectively works by shutting down your emotions. The face goes blank, the body goes still and limp and they just wait for the inevitable.

Watch a child who has been bullied at school for years and you'll see the same. Their face won't change during the name calling, they won't try to fight back, they won't show any sign of emotion. Of course, on some level it resonates and hurts but the instinct to get away from a dangerous or threatening situation (flight) or to defend yourself (fight) has gone. What's left is a sort of shell.

It's a good idea to treat a woman who has been abused as you would treat a child who has been bullied. Would you demand to know why they haven't changed schools? Would you tell them it's their fault because they aren't walking out of lessons? Would you tell them it was too far fetched and you wouldn't believe them? Would you shout at them to go to the headteacher NOW?

But I would say that to a bullied child, people protest! Yes, you would.

But kindly, gently and supportively. You'd give practical advice ('you can claim benefits' is often said on here but not HOW and I for one wouldn't know where to start) and you'd reassure them it wasn't their fault, and you might give them some praise for coping so far and your tone would be gentle and your smile would be kind.

What we are saying is not that there is a problem with LTB.

There is a big problem when someone hesitates over LTB and is given a kicking. It's as useless as it is unkind, as pointless as it is heartless.

All you've done is perpetuate the isolation someone has found themselves in and made it more likely that they will be going nowhere. But then I sometimes think some like that and feel smug and happy that their'relationship isn't like that and they'd never put up with it. Would they?

MissHooliesCardigan · 01/01/2016 08:58

doit That's a brilliant post and sums up my feelings precisely. It's not the saying that the OP should leave, it's the way it's done.
I also totally agree with the contempt poured on women who stay after infidelity. The fact is that some relationships do recover from affairs and I don't just mean 'survive' as in limping on tinged with bitterness and resentment.
I've seen it happen with my SIL - she did throw him out for six months and it took a lot of individual and couple therapy but, 12 years later, they seem happier than ever. And she's no doormat.

TooSassy · 01/01/2016 09:14

OP.

I didn't dare post on mnet when I found certain things out about my STBXH because I would have gotten LTB and I knew it. I just wasn't ready to hear it or accept it. Because LTB equated to failure in my world. It was also fucking scary and would disrupt a relatively comfortable / easy world I was living in.

In hindsight I was lucky and I was able to pull the LTB trigger (minus mnet help) very quickly when more evidence came to light.

The LTB posts I largely see are called right and the poster has asked for advice. If you don't want to hear the advice, don't ask. But the reality is that red flags are red flags. I never project what happened to me onto other posters but I certainly have a different perspective and can see warning signs that I missed. Those posts may not result in LTB immediately but believe you me, they sow a very important seed in a lot of posters minds. And if they even help one poster get out of a bad situation then FairPlay to mnetters. There are a lot who give a LOt of support and they're getting a harder than normal time on these boards recently

SummerNights1986 · 01/01/2016 09:58

The fact that those who Left The Bastard don't regret it is not some kind of proof that the MN 'LTB' advice is the wonderful thing some think.

Generally, I think LTB is the most overused phrase ever and that men are supposed to be some perfect species that never, ever fuck up to be deemed worthy.

I've been told to LTB, a year or so ago. I can't even remember what the thread I posted was about (not my relationship) but during the conversation I divulged that DH had dumped his previous girlfriend for me Shock . There was also a bit of a kiss between us just before he ended things with his ex.

That was it. I needed to LTB before he cheated on me and fucked off with the next bit of skirt he saw, I was despicable for being with such a man, Dh was the biggest cunt ever and his ex must be thanking her lucky stars to have escaped such a massive knob...

Not many let the facts get in their way. That when Dh left his ex, we were 17 and 21. They had been together for 6 months, not living together, no dc, not particularly serious.

We were 10 years in, married with dc, happy, settled, still in love. But he 'had form' and would be out the door as soon as he got a better offer. Once a cheater, always a cheater and all that.

It was fucking ridiculous.

SummerNights1986 · 01/01/2016 10:05

I'd also hazard a guess that there are more people on MN that didn't LTB and also didn't regret it than there are those that did LTB and didn't regret it.

PageStillNotFound404 · 01/01/2016 10:59

I'd also hazard a guess that if there are any women who did LTB on MN's advice and regretted it, they're unlikely to hang around the forum who, in their opinion, advised them to make what they now think of as a big mistake, unless they're a complete masochist.

Atenco · 01/01/2016 11:19

SummerNights1986 but then any whiff of unfaithfulness is one thing that is never tolerated on MN. I imagine some people have been so horribly hurt by unfaithfulness that hint of it is like a red flag to bull.

I do find people's reactions to unfaithfulness a bit OTT. Anytime a man wants to leave his partner/wife "there must be an OW"; when the relationship is already passed salvation from everything the OP says she is urged to "check his phone". A step-mother having a problem with the ex-wife is always asked if she is the OW,

Twgtwf · 01/01/2016 12:44

The obsessive stuff about "there must be an OW" is typical of the projection which is so rife. A complete inability to see beyond one's own life and prejudices. And, of course, a desire to speak endlessly about oneself.

bumbleymummy · 01/01/2016 13:36

Yes! It's perfectly acceptable for a woman to just realise the relationship is over but a man MUST be having an affair if he decides to end the relationship. Major confirmation bias on that too - they only remember the times they were right.

JohnLuther · 01/01/2016 13:44

I get fed up with seeing people being told to LTB and when they don't for whatever reason are then pretty much bullied because they haven't LTB, being told they're going to regret it if they don't do it right this second etc. It happens quite regularly and it's awful to witness, it reminds me of people ganging up against somebody.

Another thing that has already been mentioned is that the amount of projection is incredible, a man cannot end a relationship because he no longer wants it, he must have an OW.

Mumsnet is an incredibly supportive place but those two things boil my piss.

NotDavidTennant · 01/01/2016 14:09

"Another thing that has already been mentioned is that the amount of projection is incredible, a man cannot end a relationship because he no longer wants it, he must have an OW."

Most people in non-abusive LTR don't leave until they have someone new lined up though. That's my experience, anyway.

Twgtwf · 01/01/2016 16:12

It may be your personal experience, DavidTennant, but it has not attained the status of Universal Truth, to which everyone must be forcibly converted.

PalmerViolet · 01/01/2016 16:16

Depends who the advice is coming from.

There are a few truly wonderful women who post on relationships and have spent hours on and offline holding other women's hands while they go through some of the worst times in their lives.

There are also some rubberneckers who are less helpful, who will for whatever reason shout LTB at every opportunity.

On the whole, the advice given to women is excellent. A dear friend of mine has received huge support from here during the breakdown of her marriage. Her STBExH had convinced her that she was fat, useless and stupid but if you had spoken to her, she would have told you that it was just a normal marriage. He'd also taken up with another woman while working away, but had convinced my friend that he'd left because she was a horrible person. It all came out in the end, despite him still lying about it, but the patient and caring support she had from strangers on here as well as from the few friends he'd allowed her to keep was invaluable.

Writing off all LTB advice as bullying or mean is as ridiculous as some of the odd reactions women get from other women when they don't behave in ways they think they should. However, I have found that, on threads where the relationships board is discussed, there's a lot of bitterness and anger that comes flooding out.

NoMore314 · 01/01/2016 16:22

oh for fuck's sake.

Nobody tells posters to leave.

They remind them
that they're not obliged to stay
that they're not responsible for somebody else's happiness
that they're not to blame for others' bad behaviour
that they are probably more independent than they believe they are
that they are worth more than being treated badly

I've yet to talk to anybody (on line) who left because they were told to. Have you any idea how hard it is to leave a man if he's the father of your children?

Anybody who thinks that posters are reading ''leave the bastard'' and then blithely leaving when the situation is redeemable is really naive. More like every sound sane reasonable voice is telling them they're worth more and still they're too paralysed to leave because they've been made to feel that they owe it some asshole to stay... to offer up their life for an asshole's convevnience. That's what society tells women.

Can we have one place where that's NOT the message.

ouryve · 01/01/2016 16:30

It was a huge relief to me when someone told me I had the option. I'd never previously considered it possible, since one of his monologues was about marriage being a life long commitment and not something to be thrown away without a thought. It was a relief to have someone reassure me that it was utter twaddle.