To think Ross was a jealous control freak and Joey was a sex pest?

[Cerseirys]

I was watching a Friends marathon last night as I had insomnia, and thought bloody hell, Joey was actually pretty creepy the way he would pursue women with his "how YOU doin'" line and do things like take down the shower curtain when he had a female roommate and ask her sex-related questions when interviewing for a new flatmate.

And Ross was bordering on psychotic with his sandwich fixation and jealousy of just about any guy Rachel interacted with. And also that weird overprotective thing when he first found out about Monica and Chandler. She was his sister, not his possession!

I loved Friends, Chandler and Monica are my favourites although there was a season which must have had different writers because Monica was more annoying than in previous seasons. I can't remember which season but it was the one where her and Ross did the Dicky Rock (or something) New Years dance thing. God she was the most irritation character then.

Something that I always found odd though was the episodes at the beach house. They are all playing strip poker and nobody seemed to think it was weird that Monica and Ross were both playing. Would you ever, EVER want to play strip poker with your sibling?

Lana I think people are just having a laugh on this lighthearted thread. "Vile" is just MNese for "a bit unpleasant".

Anyway this thread has really made me rethink my stance on Phoebe! I always thought of her as ultimately a loveable hippy that had been badly written but the more I think about it she was quite a selfish person.

Right

Well..have you noticed the way the daughter is treated? She seems to be the butt of a lot of pretty unkind jokes. She's targeted in a way that her brothers (who are equally odd) just aren't.

And that episode with Brooke Shields...the single mother who's a mouthy gobshite that can't control her (horrible) kids?

I actually quite like it..

Monica did become more irritating as time went on buy at least she was "scrappy" which made her more loveable.

And, and how come Rachel is a single mum and it barely impacts on her life at all?

Probably because Ross lived close and they saw each other every day and she also had a nanny.

And another...that bloody stupid plotline about Rachels boss trying to buy her baby.

I vaguely remember this, but her boss wasn't trying to buy her baby was he? It was a lie that Rachel told to Joey?

I've just thought of another irritating US tv sitcom trope.

Ordinary looking/not particularly attractive man with stunningly attractive wife/partner/other love interest.

Once you notice it you can't stop. It's EVERYWHERE!

Well, not role models exactly Sparkling but it was sort of a cultural reference point for people. I remember being 18 or 19 or so and buying wholeheartedly into the idea that all men inevitably watch porn. Did I believe that solely because I saw it mentioned often on friends? Of course not, but I was fairly sheltered and that's the message I was getting from mainstream media (Cosmo I'm looking at you) as well as TV shows like friends, so before I engaged my critical thinking, I just sort of assumed it was accurate.

I might be mistaken but I think Ross was mid nervous breakdown when he was screaming about HIS sister/sandwich? I remember him shaking a pot of pills and saying it wasn't good for his rage.

I'm another one who loved it at the time and now look back and think it's awful. Although I do remember thinking how shocking Lisa Kudrow's acting is; quite often when Phoebe was delivering a so-called funny line she would visibly smirk and you could tell she wasn't supposed to.

Yes lana that's the one. It was quite stunningly stupid..but that wouldn't have mattered at all if it was actually funny, which it wasn't.

I think The Middle is an extremely poor imitation of Malcolm in the Moddle which is vastly superior

Um, not clear if people really thought Ross was controlling?

Re Joey, yes, I hated that and I dint recall any women turning him down? But eww, pervert. I also think the bar man in Cheers should be done for harrassment though, I know it was on when I was a child but i saw it recently in a comedy channel at a mate's house and wondered how anyone found it funny then?

Ah yes the invisible baby! What was even more unlikely is that Ross would be OK with Rachel taking the baby to Paris (his main gripe was with losing Rachel) and that the company would have paid for her to be ferried back and forth.

Both SATC and Friends ended with the old short-lived move to Paris.

Rachel should have stayed there, hooked up with Mark (he was so much better suited to her than jealous Ross) and then we could have had "Les Copains" instead.

I watched Frasier recently and found it incredibly sexist, Roz is portrayed as the slapper single mum and Daphne is the ditzy English home help. In the episode I saw Frasier was approached while out shopping by an attractive woman close to his age......to ask if he'd go on a date with her daughter who was about 30 years his junior!!!!

I always said that about Ross too theydontknow he wouldn't move to London to be with Emily because he didn't want to leave Ben, but didn't mind Rachel taking Emma to live in Paris

I see what you mean Oryx using the show as a benchmark during teen years. I wanted to be Demi Moore in St Elmo's Fire even though she played a really flawed person.

Ds1 (16) has seen a few episodes of Friends and was completely underwhelmed by the whole thing. It's a sitcom from the past to him. Although he loves Blackadder.

Best thing about SATC was Kim Cattrall as Samantha IMO.

Now that's interesting about Frasier. I always thought of it as being better than other sitcoms in that way. For an example, I liked the portrayal of Roz - she goes out and has adventures and doesn't get 'punished'. Plus Frasier and Niles are frequently the butt of jokes due to their own pompousness, snobbishness etc.

I accept I may be viewing it through rose timted glasses though :).

I don't see Roz as being portrayed as a slapper at all. I was disappointed that she got pregnant in a "tired old plot device" kind of way but it never occurred to me to see it as punishment.

The Frasier "spa" episode with silver, gold and platinum, and the one with Niles and his flour baby are my faves.

The main gripe I have with Frasier (a show I generally love) is how much it relies on 'gay panic' jokes to pad out weaker episodes with cheap laughs.

And now that I've posted that I've realised my favourite episode is the ski lodge one, which has Niles listed after by a Frenchman...

There seemed to be many references/jokes about Roz's "latest conquest" but granted Ive only seen a few random episodes, so never saw how her relationships panned out overall.

Lusted not listed...

Yeah, it's definitely not perfect and has its eye-rolling moments.

I rather like Roz being a single mum because it's portrayed positively - she has her daughter and is able to carry on with her job but the daughter is 'there' and not just as a plot device. It's believable in a way that Rachel being a single mum isn't.

Karanka, I like that one too.
And Niles and Daphne at the dance.

If I watched it again I'd find Frasier's desperation annoying in much the same way as the SATC characters don't sit well with me now, though there were other great things about that show.

What Frasier and Friends have in common is that although the intellectuals are often seen as pompous they are always men.

I don't think the scriptwriters could decide whether Rachel and Phoebe were clever or stupid.