Do you know any misogynistic women?

[ovaryhill]

I've been reading a bit about this and wondered how common it is.
Has anyone had any experience of this?
I know at least one woman who behaves as if she hates other women and is very derogatory about women in general, agrees that wearing short skirts means you're asking for trouble kind of thing, sees other women as a threat and would prefer to work for men
Any opinions or experience?

no

At no point have i said that women do not do those things

I have said that men also do those things

But bitchy is invariably only used when referring to women

Certainly have come across "bitchy" women

And bitchy men

Quite telling that a thread about misogyny has ended up becoming a thread about women being "bitchy". Misogyny writ large.

I am lucky in that I only know one misogynist woman. She's really bad, though. Married to a male misogynist. I'm not sure whether to pity her, as it must be a very hard life, being married to someone who hates her, hating herself at the same time, and hating all women.

So full of hate.

On the other hand, she's really nasty, so I like to think she gets what she deserves.

Straight men are never referred to as "bitchy".

I've definitely seen a lot of behaviour in men and boys that would be called bitchy if they were seen in women and girls. My mil seems to relish in calling little girls 'bitches', but I remember my brothers had a lot more friendship issues than me. I'm glad mumsnet has taught me about 'confirmation bias' so I can now name this.

I think hearing little girls described as 'bitches' is pretty disgusting. Yes children can be cruel, all children can regardless of their sex.

My mum has some woman hating attitudes but she very much values female friendships and all-female spaces. She is a bit of a rape apologist and has fairly traditional expectations of gender roles. Yet she was the sole earner most of the time in our house, then a single parent sole earner with a great career, owner of her house. She was abused as a child and then by my dad as an adult so I find her views on rape particularly, very sad with her background in mind.

"I think hearing little girls described as 'bitches' is pretty disgusting. Yes children can be cruel, all children can regardless of their sex."

^^ This! I know someone who regularly describe their daughter as a "little bitch" and every time she does something naughty will roll her eyes and say "that's girls for you". Then there's always words like "diva" and "right little madam".

I know they are young and it's often said affectionately but it will all sink in, that this is how they're expected to act, and that the reason they act like that is because they are girls.

Straight men are never referred to as "bitchy"

Absolutely not true. My teens and their friends (all straight to date) talk about bitchy behaviour, irrespective of whether the bitching comes from their male or female friends.

BertrandRussell
Straight men are never referred to as "bitchy".

What, never? Not a single time in the history of human language? I'm pretty sure I've called straight men bitches, when they've been bitches. I'm fairly sure I've been called a bitch, more than once. In fact, I've probably called more men bitches than I've called women bitches.

Have you ever watched Breaking Bad? Or any film based on Black urban culture? Or listened to hip hop or any rap battles? Maybe you should take your head out of your accustomed restrictive sphere of experience and realise not everyone conforms to your ideological narrative.

I have heard of men being called bitchy.

I called my dh a bitch when he was being bitchy once.

I've probably called more men bitches

So you're insulting men by comparing them to something which is biologically female?

And you don't see the irony OR misogyny in that?

Why not? We use cunt liberally on MN - the irony and misogyny appears either lost or selective.

I think people are being a bit unfair to Bertrand. In general, straight men aren't called bitchy. In rap battles a man might be called 'a bitch', more like a wimp, not someone who gossips. It's not the same thing. Yes on occasion people will call straight men bitches but the term is mainly reserved for women and gay men.

Off topic a bit, I was thinking the other day that 'bastard' seems to be dying out a bit as an insult. I mean as a swear word, not as a child of unmarried parents. Is it dying out or am I mixing with the wrong crowd?

In which case she shouldn't use the word 'never'. She knows the drill - and would happily pull someone up for doing the same (using the infamous BR questioning technique in order to coach them to reach the desired conclusion)

Indeed. I don't much like "cunt" myself or "dickhead" but generally they're interchangeable and both mean "arsehole of the first order".

Bitch on the other hand is used to describe a set of traits that is uniquely ascribed to women and the fact that there is no male equivalent and so men displaying such behaviour must be called by the female name is telling.

What does a "dog" mean after all?

You're mixing with the wrong crowd - "Ya wee bastart" or "ya wee fucking basta" is still used widely up here, for example

They - bitch is used to describe both male and female, as is 'dog'. The fact that we (as in men and women) use a word for female genitalia as one of the worst insults for both sexes is quite interesting, I find.

My MIL is a misogynist. She always mocks women who are strong, successful and assertive. She is quite an intelligent woman but 'dumbs herself down' and always defers to FIL's opinions. They come from a conservative male dominated culture. I've known for a long time it pisses my father in law off that I dare express my own opinion or know more about certain subjects than him or my dh.
MIL also thinks women should work to support their husbands but he should make the financial decisions. She hates my dh turning to me for advice about financial stuff. Once he asked me my opinion about their pension investments in front of them and she was livid!
I just can't understand women who are anti-women.

No, I don't think I know any misogynistic women. I don't think that disliking certain behaviour in a particular woman/group of women automatically means that person is a misogynist as some people seem to.

Yes, I have used "bitchy" to refer to heterosexual men who are "bitching".

My MIL, sadly. According to her: "women with young children work for foreign holidays & fancy cars" And house prices are high as mortgages are lent out on 2 salaries "a big mistake". When I went back to work after maternity leave, two days before she asked DP "does Sauvignon need any help with childcare" because that's my job. Utterly depressing.

Ok

Straight men are not called bitchy very often. Except by mumsnetters who use it all the time. What are we talking about now? I think I might have lost the thread.

SirChen that's kind of my point!

Lauren, with regards to your MIL that must be very hard for you to be undermined constantly. This is a half baked idea but sometimes I think that older women who "abided by the rules" when they were young might feel that younger women coming along and having the freedoms and expectations that they were denied are somehow making a negative judgement on the lives that they led.

It's a half baked idea and I'm not explaining it very well!

My MIL.

Very much a product of her time and upbringing (she is 80, grew up in the rural Caribbean in a strictly Catholic, abusive family).

She believes women should obey their husbands

She thinks men who literally lift one tiny finger in the house or with their kids should be publicly lauded and praised and arse-kissed, whereas women should put up, shut up and expect no comment or praise ever.

Believes women have 'a cross to bear' and should so silently and without complaint.

Pities unmarried women and childless women especially, and thinks there is something wrong with them / they must have done something wrong to be in 'such a position'.

Comments negatively on other women almost pathologically. Criticises other women's looks, weight, dress sense, cooking, housekeeping, driving, all choices etc.

Particularly scathing and weird around mothers and babies. Thinks breast-feeding is disgusting.

Feminism is for lesbians, man haters and single women who wish they were married with kids .

I get on quite well with her, oddly enough. Fifteen years later I have earned to tune her out .