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Original poster

To hate the disingenuous, lying, underhand Hunting Brigade and there ongoing campaign to bring back fox hunting

309 replies

Boomingmarvellous · 26/12/2015 09:56

I hate fox hunting with horses and hounds. It's cruel and barbaric. That's my only objection. I don't mind shooting foxes if they are predating livestock like chickens and lambs. The rest should be left in peace to maintain their place in rural life.

The Hunting brigade and the Countryside Alliance have lied about everything to support their 'sport'. Not least the mass euthanasia of hounds and horses and loss of countryside jobs if it was banned. 10 years on it is more popular then ever.

They still 'accidentally' kill foxes who stray across their path. Why? Because the trail they lay is still concocted to smell of foxes. They have had 10 years to raise hounds to follow a different scent. Dogs can be trained to pick up the scent of anything so why stick to fox? Of course it's because they knew if a conservative government got in they would change the law back again.

Thank you SNP for scotching that idea.

OP posts:
HoundPaws · 26/12/2015 19:45

Jorah, dehumanising people you happen to disagree with is not a good look. Why not try to engage with an actual argument?

TaliZorah · 26/12/2015 20:04

do not have a problem with killing vermin for sport

I can't fathom this. Regardless of whether you think an animal is vermin how can it be a sport?

I can't kill a spider without feeling sad, how the fuck can you enjoy killing something for sport

Supermanspants · 26/12/2015 20:12

hound
A few points.....
Foxes are not vermin. DEFRA are clear on that.
Foxes imported for hunting from the continent as hunting grew in popularity well into the 20th century
Interesting that hunts like to ensure a good supply of foxes by feeding them.
Quote from a hunt employee when questioned about hunting when cubs are in the ground..... 'We do not generally hunt beyond March to ensure a good supply of quarry for next season'
Sixteen foxes held in captivity and fed/watered near Middleton Hunt. Strange way to deal with 'pests'.
Last week a fox found in captivity in Belvoir country being 'looked after' hunt employee comes to remove fox two hours before Belvoir hounds due to meet and move off. Hunt employee filmed going into the outhouse with a bag. Came out looking confused as fox had been rescued. Another strange way to deal with 'pests'
Loss of lambs due to fix predation so small as to be negligible. Research conducted by Aberdeen University found most loss of lambs was due to poor animal husbandry on the part of the farmer.
Constantly breaking a law does not mean it has loopholes and is unenforceable. It means an arrogant minority believe they are above the law. They take advantage of the difficulty in keeping tabs on them.
If hunts continue so successfully why are they so vehemently against being monitored (and I am not talking about sabbing) and why bother with repeal.

Thankfully you and your like ARE a minority. The fact that you enjoy the pursuit and terror filled death of a wild animal is nothing to be proud of. In a way I pity you because that is who you a in the world. Trotting out the same sold bollocks about country ways and people 'not understanding' is quite frankly laughable.

Supermanspants · 26/12/2015 20:14

Hound
You call someone out because they are not engaging in an actual argument..... Well neither are you.

Dipankrispaneven · 26/12/2015 20:20

The point I was making was that pack hunting is something that exists in nature, it's not something we have created, dogs will hunt like that naturally.

So what? Does that mean we have to descend to the level of pack dogs, or that we are entitled to breed and keep dogs purely so that they can hunt and kill other animals for our entertainment?

catfordbetty · 26/12/2015 20:21

The point I was making was that pack hunting is something that exists in nature, it's not something we have created, dogs will hunt like that naturally

And the point I was making that foxes also kill according to their nature. They are not being "ruthless" or "indiscriminate" - you are applying human motivations that they simply don't have.

kali110 · 26/12/2015 20:23

Maybe Some people feel that stopping animals being hunted for sport is a worthy cause?
Anti hunters are thugs?really Confused
The fact that some people think it is fun to hunt an animal till it is exhausted and terrified and then watch it being killed? Absolutely sick.
The hunters are the vermin.
I don't wish any harm on the hounds or the horses as it's not their fault, they're made to do it.
I'd be upset if any of them got hurt, if a rider did i can't say i would.
People who work in abattoirs are very different to the twisted people who hunt.
If they got pleasure from it i'd think them just as twisted and sick.

Youknowitmakessense · 26/12/2015 20:31

Killing for sport.

Just CANNOT understand how killing can be fun?????????????

WorraLiberty · 26/12/2015 20:37

Even those who believe that foxes have to be killed, surely you must understand that it's pretty sick to take enjoyment from it, and see it as a 'sport'?

My old dog had to be put down due to a brain tumour.

The vet simply killed him in the most humane way possible.

At no point did she rub her hands together, gather her colleagues and turn it into a form of entertainment for them all.

I'm sure if they had, they would have been called all the sick bastards under the sun and rightly so.

nippiesweetie · 26/12/2015 20:41

When foxes 'kill to excess 'it is because prey like lambs or chickens either won't or can't run away as they would if they were wild animals.

The fox is not killing for pleasure. It is following its instincts.

If packs of feral dogs hunted and killed foxes, that would be natural. What mounted hunts do is far from that.

Also, hunting has no utility. None. When hunting was stopped during the foot and mouth outbreak fox numbers did not run out of control - they stayed the same.

83% of country dwellers want hunting to stay banned.

Siwi · 26/12/2015 20:47

A few years ago my three chickens were killed by a fox.
One was gone and the other two were left lying (neatly!) without heads.

As you can imagine I was rather upset and a very kind friend took them away in a bin bag.

Friend is caretaker for a masssssive house on an estate where hunts meet.
He left the bodies out for the local fox to take.

He tells me that these big estates feed the foxes to encourage them because it is kudos for the owner of the estate when the hunt catch a real fox.

My in laws are hunting mad so I keep quiet but they DEFINITELY lie about it with glee.

Siwi · 26/12/2015 20:55

And beagling.

I suppose the hunt is too big to hide but with beagling you are given a list of local estates in a list and each is given a letter of the alphabet.

On Saturday morning everyone is sent a text with the letter indicating the meet.

Which cloak and daggers implies there is something to hide.

Andrewofgg · 26/12/2015 21:35

I am a townie through and through and know nothing of the rights and wrongs of hunting but I do see hunting in England as a perfect example of a matter on which MPs for Scotland and NI should have no vote. It does not affect them and in their constituencies it is a matter for the Parliament/Assembly.

if I am wrong, why am I wrong?

Siwi · 26/12/2015 21:36

Does the ban cover NI?

SeoulSista · 26/12/2015 21:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TaliZorah · 26/12/2015 21:40

Why not both Seoul?

LumpySpacedPrincess · 26/12/2015 21:41

Andrew - if we exclude Scottish votes we are left with the Tories, we need other countries to offer a more rational and logical view sometimes.

Andrewofgg · 26/12/2015 21:47

Lumpy We might as well ask the French, the Russians, the Americans to vote on it for us.

If we exclude the Scots and the NI members the question of hunting in England and Wales will be in the hands of the Members elected by the people of England and Wales - who are the ones concerned. What's wrong with that?

Siwi The Act which was passed at Westminster only covers England and Wales. The Scots have passed their own law. Whether there is a ban in NI I don't know (but this is MN and I expect somebody will) but if there is it will be their own law passed in Belfast.

Supermanspants · 26/12/2015 21:48

Seoul

Yes...... It just all about that Hmm
Clearly nothing whatsoever to do with the savagery of hunting with hounds and the years and years of tireless work undertaken by animal welfare groups.

Perhaps look at the bigger picture here rather than regurgitating a comment made by a Labour MP
You talk of Tory toffs. . . It will be those same Tory toffs who will ensure this act remains in place and will in time be strengthened.

Andrew
It makes no difference. . . There are still not enough MP's who would vote to repeal the act even without the SNP being involved. Nonetheless animal cruelty does not recognise borders.

Supermanspants · 26/12/2015 21:53

Oh.... And one more point......... A significant number of Tory MP's would vote for repeal despite the majority of their constituents being opposed to hunting so that kind of makes your point null and void. This became evident in the summer when an amendment was on the table.

Andrewofgg · 26/12/2015 21:53

Supermanspants I agree that excluding the Scots and NI members will probably not lead to the Act being repealed.

To say that animal cruelty knows no borders^ is to beg the question. We in England don't interfere with the laws passed in Edinburgh and Belfast and Cardiff since devolution on matters which are devolved and their representatives should stand in the same relationship to our laws on those subects. If it's their business in their part of the UK, it's ours in ours.

Andrewofgg · 26/12/2015 21:56

I simply want DC to honour his promised to bring the matter before the House, with his own Members having a free vote and the Scots/NI members having no vote at all - and if the vote is to keep the Act, so be it. What's wrong with that apart from a day of parliamentary time (which in these days of closure and timetables is not as scarce as it used to be) lost?

SeoulSista · 26/12/2015 21:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Supermanspants · 26/12/2015 22:05

The reason why so much time was spent on it was because the predominately pro hunt Lords kept throwing it out. They did this so time would run out. That is why it was forced through under the parliament act.

Supermanspants · 26/12/2015 22:07

I agree Andrew. I hope it DOES go to a free vote but DC won't do that because he knows he won't get it repealed. This is why he didn't go after repeal in his first term because he knew it would be voted down. He will sit on it until he feels he has a chance of winning a free vote. . Which is unlikely to ever happen.