to wonder what is wrong with Stella Creasy?

[RickRoll]

Stella Creasy said that Donald Trump is not welcome in the UK, as he is a 'hate preacher'. twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/674338732762374145

But when the US denies entry to someone, she's making a song and dance about how unjust it is.

She claims that there is a 'growing problem' of British Muslims being denied entry into the US.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/22/us-british-citizens-holiday-muslim-families

This is based on the case of a man, his brother (no women on this trip, apparently at least one of the wives is in Pakistan), and their seven children, whose aborted trip to the US has been presented as a 'trip to Disneyland'.

It appears that one of the 'children' (actually 18) had a Facebook page saying he is a supporter of Al Qaeda/Taliban/violent jihad.

i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/23/21/2F9774C300000578-3371472-It_has_since_emerged_that_a_Facebook_page_pictured_claiming_link-m-2_1450905956811.jpg

While the brother was previously denied admission to Israel (as I understand it, being refused entry to another country is generally a huge red flag for travel).

Stella Creasy has also come out in support of Shiraz Maher, a self-described 'Muslim extremist'. twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/679644861415448577

While Ajmal Masroor is another complaining about not being allowed in
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/23/uk-imam-ajmal-masroor-us-business-visa-revoked-without-explanation

except that he has numerous links to extremist Islamist groups

hurryupharry.org/2014/05/02/is-ajmal-masroor-an-extremist/

AIBU to think that

(a) if you are going to complain about hate speech from the likes of Trump, you could keep your eyes open to hate speech from large numbers of people living in your own constituency

(b) to think that it's ludicrous to suggest that there is an active ban on Muslims entering the US, when thousands of Muslims enter the US every day, so coming out with a handful of examples of people denied entry doesn't really show anything

(c) that US immigration authorities do have the right to deny people entry based on specific intelligence (jihad support on social media, previous deportations, links to extremist organisations, and so on)

?

Oh Anthony, bless. Its like you've never heard of diplomacy. Yes, we could lobby the usa. Another accepted route is to raise things givernment to government

It's not that though, is it, AnthonyBlanche (the coincidence of names makes me feel like I am arguing with myself )?

It's about diplomatic relationships, maintaining the various pacts and agreements between various countries. Not allowing things like the Extraordinary Renditions to pass without censure, again. Though I appreciate that such a stand won't be taken, especially with today's ramped up security levels.

The consequences of such actions are myriad, starting with promoting the fear of Islam. It needs to be questioned, we, the public, don't need to know the reasons, just to have confidence that our governments are communicating. I know that sounds naive, but it is stems from my belief (vain hope?) that Whitehalls, Intelligence Agencies have a job to do and we should know it is being done, without necessarily know what it is that is being done. Blame my reading of Le Carre if you like

Enjoras What proof do you have it was just down to their race or religion? From what I heard Stella Creasey say, yesterday, that is what she wants Cameron to find out. That is what they should be doing.

I think what some on this thread don't realise is that the U.S. Is not a cuddly European country whose citizens have all sorts of ECHR protections. It is a very authoritarian country which will do what it wants when it wants. There is no point in the UK lobbying the U.S. And I can't even begin to think why anyone would think that was appropriate. Lobby for what exactly? Stop refusing entry to people who you are suspicious of, or who have committed crimes?

As a dual UK / U.S. citizen (and having lived and worked in the USA) I do feel that I may have a better insight than many others into the way the U.S. Operates.

It's touching that so many folk think the US gives a shiny shit about us - wake up, they really don't.

And if you think a country is within its rights to choose whoever enters, for whatever reason, then that is agreeing that banning people entering based on race/religion/sex/colour of eyes is ok

I do think a country should be allowed to ban whoever it wants. I may not agree with the criteria or rules. In which case I wouldn't go.

But they weren't stopped from going due to any of the above reasons

I think that what you don't realise is that some of us do appreciate the USA stance and have hopes that its insularity can be contained a little, allowing other less closed/patriarchal thinkers to diffuse some of its worst knee jerk reactions.

We have to contend with Putin and his grandstanding, taking full advantage of the IS situation. If the US reacts as it has historically we will end up with another Cold War, one that fuels IS militancy as well as the old fashioned East / West separatism.

And until you've dealt with a U.S. Govt department you don't know the meaning of beuraucracy! Makes the worst UK dept look like a model of efficiency and reasonableness.

I have dealt with a US education supplier... I think the experience might have been similar

Enjoras What proof do you have it was just down to their race or religion? From what I heard Stella Creasey say, yesterday, that is what she wants Cameron to find out. That is what they should be doing.

I don't disagree with this.

But I don't believe the rest of the party didn't know that one has been ejected from Israel and needed a visa. I don't believe that none of them knew a member of the party had a terrorist group down as his employer.

The traveling to a family place with no women, is something they look at every time.

I have a situation where my brother was stopped at immigration (this is pre esta) be appeared to be a male in his twenties in Florida, on holiday, alone. It's usual and raises a flag.

My point is I believe the family know full well why the issues are

My sympathies fellow Blanche, hope you've recovered!

Stella will jump on anything to get publicity. When we had the London riots she took the publicity/praise for setting up refreshments for the local emergency services. She had nothing to do with it, just sat on Twitter and used it for her personal agenda.

Not at all surprised to see her wading in on this.

She wants to be the next PM y'know

"This is incredibly naive"

It most certainly is not. Apart from genuine mistakes, which I am not talking about, there could be many reasons that they were denied entry but also not told what those reasons for denial are.

I think it's also worth remembering that US immigration is dealing with thousands and thousands of immigration applications everyday. (I don't know the exact system but I can take an educated guess). If they run a check on someone and a Facebook status like that pops up, it's not unreasonable to see why they'd just reject the application and move on to the next one. Who has the time or inclination to start weighing up the positives or negatives, when if they fuck up there's a good chance their job is gone?

It's not like they have a reputation for letting anyone who fancies coming in is it?

I think I mean Visa applications!

ottothedog are you aware that Saudi, for example, won't let Jews of any nationality into their country?

Do you seriously think that foreign governments have the right of interfering into another state's decision who and who not to admit?

But why are there US border control officers working in Gatwick in the first place? We are a sovereign nation that already has border agency and security staff operating in our airports - why have we allowed the US (or any other country) to send over theirs as well?

The US do not make policy based on the the British medians need to spin everything into a political argument.

lala they weren't there. You fill an Esta in before you go and then when you check in the information is sent to the US. Who make the decision.

Sometimes you are stopped before you board. Sometimes it's at the other side.

The man was quoted as saying 'a man who said he was from British boarder control and has a boarder control jacket on said we wouldn't be allowed to board'

I have got the channel tunnel from Ashford before. Passport control was run by the French there. It's not that unusual.

Stella Creasy represents Walthamstow and is trying to keep her seat, therefore she needs to please her constituents.

US immigration is doing the same.

Ego I agree that a blanket ban on people of any race, colour or religion entering any country is very wrong. However, there is a problem with a small number of Muslims, such as those from many Western European countries who have travelled to Syria to join ISIS.

Given the media storm around the latest cases we will no doubt find out eventually why entry to US was refused.

Enjolrass - if it were UK border control that turned the family away then fair enough (sort of) but several reports I heard/saw yesterday said that it was an American official. This from the Guardian:

Stella Creasy, has written to the prime minister after a family party of 11, about to embark on a dream holiday for which they had saved for months, were approached by officials from US homeland security as they queued in the departure lounge and told their authorisation to travel had been cancelled, without further explanation.