Bible from school

[user7755]

DS goes to a standard secondary (not a religious school), he came home last week with a bible.

I remember we got them when we were kids but I had forgotten thought we had moved on since then

DS doesn't believe in God, his choice and nothing to do with us. But I'm just really shocked and irritated at this act, presumably an attempt to spread the word and indoctrinate kids into organised religion.

I am very, very anti organised religion right now, following a historical abuse case involving our family which has just been through the court and involved a vicar, so very aware that I'm probably oversensitive.

Is it me? AIBU?

fidel1ne I don't think they have much contact with individual students, they just do an assembly, hand out the books and go.

Yes, I know - sorry, badly phrased.

I was thinking of commercial companies who now advertise through schools (that's mainly provision of literature too) but also different groups who DO get direct access to the student body, and was lumping them all together.

It's more and more widespread.

All the points about the importance of 'learning about religions', and how 'it won't turn him Christian' are, albeit true, irrelevant here.

It's pretty straightforward: evangelism doesn't belong in schools. Even when it's the "right" religion.

It's not the religion that strikes me as the most salient point, TBH. There is much more 'evangelical', insidious, evangelism to worry about.

Of course Christianity has a privileged position. We are not a secular country we are a Christian country, where the Queen is head of the church and head if government. Where bishops are automatically given a place in the House of Lords. Where local government meetings begin with a prayer. Where every local authority is required to have a SACRE formed primarily of representatives of Christianity to ensure schools are practicing their daily collective worship of a broadly Christian nature.

This is very, very wrong. There should be no place for religion in the running of the state, and no one religion should hold a privileged position over all others.

I haven't read the whole thread but I would just like to point out that the bible is both old and New Testament and as such is not a work of fiction. I studied the ancient history of the Israel (broadly) and the bible is the prime historical source.

I do sometimes wonder what people are thinking when they respond to "I don't want my child to be taught to worship or that Christiantiy [or any other faith] is fact in a non denominational state school" with "But it's important to learn about religion" or "Nobody has ever been brainwashed by being given a Bible"

These two points are perfectly true. But they are ompletely irrelevant to the point being discussed! Very odd indeed.

I mean, 'Please have this bible' is fairly up front and honest and unaccompanied by other literature is fairly benign, especially from a long-established, one-purpose organisation.

Compare that to sex education, or (as a PP referenced) 'moving on to Secondary School', or 'Christmas shoebox gifts' programmes delivered by highly evangelical, out-on-a-wing religious groups, who are NOT transparent about who and what they are.

"It's not the religion that strikes me as the most salient point, TBH. There is much more 'evangelical', insidious, evangelism to worry about."

What do you mean?

X post Bertrand. That^ is what I mean.

Apologies if this query has been answered before; what sort of bible is it? King James, Authorised, Good News? I ask because my local school was given bibles from a local Born-again Christian, Evangelical group that was making a concentrated effort to infiltrate schools, and their bibles were subtly different from the standard versions. As they were a group which believed in speaking in tongues, laying on of hands and proselytizing, they were not distributed. Even so, it is for your son to decide what he does with it.

How many other books has the school given out to pupils? If this is a regular occurrence and they give out different kinds of books (fiction, autobiographies, other religious texts, graphic novels, etc.) then I think it's fine to give out the bible. If they have only given out the bible I think that is problematic as they are singling out a particular religious text for disemination and doing so within the unique learning environment of the school (I.e. it's not a random person offering you a book you can refuse but your teacher, the person you respect and are supposed to learn from).

Think of all that we have inherited from the Enlightenment and Christianity and then wind your neck in.

I am so bored of the same people bleating about privilege. Like Dione succinctly suggests: start your own bloody thread. Or get a life.

P.s...by the year 2050 we will still be a Christian country, despite what Butler-Sloss and the CAGE-endorsing Joseph Rowntree foundation would have us believe with their 'study' into Britons' beliefs.

I find it deeply disturbing quite how terrified a minority are about Christianity having privilege in this country. I think 'Christianophobe' is an apt description for them.

The sooner church and education are separated the better. Not "terrified" just don't want those with religious beliefs we do not share presenting those personal beliefs as the norm to our kids.

Right. Please can you point out where anyone has been "terrified". Or "
"Christianophobic"

Please could you explain why I should start a different thread while this one is here.

Please can you explain how it is equitable that Christians have access to potentially a third more state funded schools than non Christians.

I accept that we do not have any separation of Church and state in this country, but please can you explain why Christians should get special treatment, particularly considering that less than 50% of the population self identify as Christian.

And finally. In the name of all that's wonderful, how can Christians possibly claim the Enlightenment for their team???????

I do sometimes wonder what people are thinking when they respond to "I don't want my child to be taught to worship or that Christiantiy [or any other faith] is fact in a non denominational state school" with "But it's important to learn about religion" or "Nobody has ever been brainwashed by being given a Bible"

These two points are perfectly true. But they are ompletely irrelevant to the point being discussed! Very odd indeed.

Giving someone a Bible is not the same as claiming that it is fact.

Whoever it was who said that young people should also be given the holy books of the other major world religions - I completely agree.

I would think anyone who pops up regularly moaning about Christianity's privilege is a Christianophobe.

Your 'less than 50%' figure is tenuous, however, only a teeny tiny percentage of the population describe themselves as Humanist and a small percentage as atheist. You are a very small minority and Muslims will only account for 5% of the population by 2050. Christianity is dwindling, yes, but you really must find a way of accepting the fact that the majority of people in this country (as on this thread) do not see the influence of Christianity in our schools as a force for indoctrination/backward thinking/oppression. They simply don't give the crap that you do.

Personally, I am deeply wary of the trend which seeks to hijack arguments for greater secularism, ie: more equal access to the state by all, in order to seek to marginalise religious people and their presence and voice in the public sphere.

This is an intolerant strand within the secularist movement which misinterprets secularism and seeks to redefine it to advance an anti-religious agenda.

Rogerscrutonrocks- do I take it from that that you are not prepared to address the points I made in my post?

I completely reject your definition of Christianophobe, by the way.

Why do atheists get so abusive about faith?

Probably because religion has done some very harmful things throughout history and much of it believes things it thinks are absurd in a scientific age....

However, I think those atheists are often attacking a 'straw man'. Firstly, people have been shown they can be evil, religion or not... It's like saying all 'politics' is wrong because of all the evil that's been done by politicians throughout the ages.

Secondly, many 'religious' people or those who say they identify with a belief system are not fundamentalists and are sceptical, agnostic or disbelieving about much of what has historically been believed. I would strongly suspect that Of the 48% who self-identify as Christians (as per Bertram's quoted survey) only a small proportion of those believe what the vast majority of Christians believed before th enlightenment.

"All the points about the importance of 'learning about religions', and how 'it won't turn him Christian' are, albeit true, irrelevant here.

It's pretty straightforward: evangelism doesn't belong in schools. Even when it's the "right" religion."

^which bit of this do you disagree with, Roger, and why?

"2/3 state, 1/3 faith state schools. Therefore if a faith school is important to someone you could say they only have a 1/3 choice. Yes they are entitled to apply to non faith, and not vice versa but still 2/3 choice for those that don't want faith schools."

Just to be clear. You think it is absolutely fine that Christians have 33% more state funded schools available to them than non Christians? You see no inequity in that at all?

We got Gideon bibles, too. I'm an atheist, but we used them for O-level RE, so not a complete waste.