about toddlers at children's service?

[Maybejustme]

DD is just 2. She's very lively and I spend a lot of time making sure she isn't getting into mischief. We don't go to church very often because she's unlikely to sit still and I don't want to disturb the congregation generally.

However, this morning was the children's Christmas service at our village church. I went along with a friend, who has a DD of similar age. The toddlers, as expected, didn't sit still and were bouncing around and jumping up and down in the area at the side. I figured, though, that as long as they were doing it relatively quietly (well mostly - there was the odd squawk) we wouldn't disturb the other kids and so didn't take DD out. Occasionally, she did make a run for the alter area and I had to pick her up quickly and tell her no etc. Whilst I was quite self conscious, I was generally glad we'd taken them.
However, there were a couple of older ladies who were pretty disapproving and one seemed cross with us both during the service and again on the way out. Aibu to think that this is what toddlers will do and that it's perhaps inevitable that there might be such behaviour exhibited at a service specifically aimed at children? It has reinforced my nervousness of taking her to church. I don't know if actually I'm just being really precious and actually we were annoying everyone but the others were too polite to say anything. ..

Family services are for children. Not old folk.

I don't think this is right. I agree with lots of posters on the thread saying children should be welcomed in church. So should everyone else. Wouldn't it be rubbish if the message older people were getting from families was that they weren't welcome at family services?

There needs to be consideration from everyone to make sure we can all get something out of the service.

Forgotten now but the lord said "suffer little children come unto me"!

There that do?, course its for children we're all children of god!

Christmas is for children:)

As i said before, i'm not particularly religious but i've been brought up christian and i just find it odd the family service is so formal. I dont think jesus would want families to be ostracised, esp those with children or families with disabilities. It goes against the grain of the new testament.

I also think there is a place for deeper spiritual study and worship in an adult only environment too.

But judging. Tutting etc. Its not on

Our church runs a variety of services for different interests. They have a children's corner, well stocked with toys and colouring.

My two have both been enthusiasts of the practical study of ecclesiastical architecture. The attitude of our church is that it's better for them to explore quietly, rather than being helicoptered or rebelling noisily at being restrained in the children's corner.

The nun who was also curate of the church commented that DS1's thorough explorations of the church on his hands and knees (keen crawler, lateish walker), and his unusual reverse crawl technique down the steps of the front, had livened up rather a dull lengthy service.

The welcoming attitudes there have helped keep us attending since marriage. There are other more reflective services provided that I wouldn't take DC to until they were old enough to engage with the service.

I think the issue is that there are few truly intergenerational spaces in our society and few places for quiet reflection.

This is a challenge for everyone (no one said being a good Christian was easy) and a lesson in being considerate.

I don't expect children to behave perfectly in church, and think people being judgemental in church should be ashamed of themselves tbh.

That said, there is a whole gulf of difference between a two year old darting off occasionally and a parent doing nothing about a child charging up and down the aisles etc

I went to a children's Christmas carol service last year in the medieval church in IL village, we were seated in choir stalls (full service) and parents were letting their children run round until one of them charged into the organ room (whatever you call it) despite door being almost closed which was unlit, they fell over something, smacked their head on hard stone floor and I swear their screams echoed through the pipes. Children were being pinned in their seats after that, but what were they expecting? Child proofing?

When I went to church as a child with family (including those younger than me) there were some age appropriate expectations of behaviour. They weren't always met of course, but there were some expectations to attempt considerate behaviour for an hour a week.

There are so many services aimed at adults. To have a family service is the one service specifically for children, with children in mind. If noisy children isn't your bag, catch the first one or the evening.

I understand that you disagree. But I have been on both sides of the fence. Children are the future. If they are looked at with anything other than happiness that they are there...the won't want to come.

In a time when church attendance is falling and the country is becoming more secular...we need to accept that times are changing. Needs change.

I attend Salvation Army. There are usually 3 services on a Sunday at most corps. The first is a prayerful one. I would never dream of taking my baby to that. The next is the family. I have had moments with little old ladies tell children off. Despite youth workers sitting with them.

Our definition of loud was very different. One child was chastised for coughing.

Adults have complained about children using technology, yet turn a blind eye to adults doing the fb checks.

Sometimes kids can't win.

The evening service is for adults. It's quiet and more adult based.

I'd rather a noisy child who felt welcomed than a child who feels awkward and unwanted in Gods house.

no-one bats an eyelid at children wandering about at my church.
our congregation most weeks is about 200 and a couple of noisy toddlers is water off a ducks back.
they totter about - usually to the snack table, snaffle what they want and totter back to their parent. where they scoff happily while parents sing or sit and pray.
when it goes quiet most little ones go out to kids church groups - some stay with their parents, sitting with a book, or at the back with a few toys...

if noise levels get too much parents take them out as there is a creche with toys and a live radio feed so you can hear the talk. some mums bf in the church, some prefer to go to the creche if they want privacy.

but no biggie - the church will die out if we don't allow our kids to come along....our kids church is about 60 under 11 year olds these days, so they are doing something right.

santana and purpledaisies absolutely agree a compromise is necessary.

Surely if OP is posting for advice, considering not going at all etc - she is demonstating this attitude? Unlike some posters who expect toddlers to be robots .

My church is very family friendly. As well as all the mid week things for families and children, the normal Sunday service involves children being in main service for 20-30 minutes. At least some of the songs in that time are action songs, they can wave flags, dance around and generally join in. If one wonders too far towards the electrical equipment or communion table the leader will often scoop them up if the parent doesn't get there fast enough. Then 100+ children go out to the halls for groups for their age group while the adults who aren't running the kids work have a more adult focussed time - although usually a couple of young babies stay in - and I certainly bf'd mine in that time. Once a month we have something almost completely child focussed and we absolutely expect that to be noisy and chaotic. But equally on that Sunday we also have a quiet contemplative service where we wouldn't expect children unless they were 99% perfectly behaved.

It would be crazy to expect children to sit quietly during a whole children's service. There might be a short quieter part (eg prayer) but even then I would simply expect parents to do their best to keep the children still and quiet.

If any of you find your children unwelcome at a church, don't give up, just try a different church. But if it's just a couple of tutting people ignore them and enjoy the fact that it's one if the few places these days that are truly multi generational if you find a good one.

boston that sounds lovely. Our old church had a little room at the back with huge glass windows and a Mike feed into it so you could here the sermon. It was grand.

Our ds is old enough at 4 to know about how to behave at church and to be (relatively) quiet. But when he was 2? Not really. Ill never forget during the showing of the cross him yelling 'boo' every time a corner of the cross was uncovered. People laughed because it was sweet and lovely and because he's a child.

Years ago, I took my two and a half year old and his five month old sister to the Christingle service. He loved the oranges and sweets and was enjoying the whole thing. His sister started to grizzle and then cry and I was asked to leave. They said we could go into the vestry to calm her down, but it was absolutely freezing in there. So we went home, with one very puzzled and upset little boy.

We usually go to christingle on xmas eve but this year was thinking of the xmas day morning service as well as I would like some of the day to be spent thinking about why we celebrate xmas but would young children not be welcome at that service?

Christmas Day service at my church is packed with kids. I'd have thought the vast majority of churches tailor it for the large numbers of families they'll get coming along. Any decent church would welcome kids. Obviously if they're absolutely running riot or screaming at the top of their voices you'll need to deal with that (just as if you were in a cafe or on a train) but I'm sure you'll have a lovely time and people will be pleased to see you.

Surely if OP is posting for advice, considering not going at all etc - she is demonstating this attitude? Unlike some posters who expect toddlers to be robots

I think saying 'fine, I won't go at all' is a bit petulant and throwing your toys out of the pram. There is no compromise at all in that, more of an assumption that being elderly disqualifies you from being part of a family.

How are children ever going to learn to behave if they aren't taken to Mass and given boundaries?

My very wise MIL says that we are teaching our 3 how to behave, and there are definitely ups and downs and commando crawls in that, but as long as you're trying your hardest to respect the church and the religious ceremony that is happening at the same time, you're grand.

I hear you too Owllady xx

I was so, so sure I'd bring any child I had to church with me and I can't believe I've let a tiny minority put me off.

It's frustrating as DS likes to be in the benches at the front but he also wants to talk or make noises so we're expected to go to the room at the back which he hates and once there demonstrates his annoyance by trying to kick the other kids and screaming/swearing at them.

If the congregation could just tolerate his quieter noises, he'd be OK in the bench with me and his brothers.

I remember going to church before I had dc and looking out for the little kids because they were so lovely and made me laugh. I don't understand how a few people can get so pissed off by a little child being a little child.

I'm a church regular. We have a very family friendly church h, toddlers playing tig in the aisle, chatting to random strangers and climbing on chairs is normal and not at all frowned upon, particularly on the days where there's no Sunday school.

Alltheworld Im sure it will be fine but packed! It might be hard for small children to run up and down the aisles as they will be full!

I'm pretty anti-disurptive-kids-in-public-places but even I think YANBU. It was a CHILDREN'S service!

Op, I have had similar issues in the church I attend. I even posted a thread recently about people taking over the small room at the back of the hall that's supposed to be for parents with small children, making it impossible to use and therefore leaving you with the choice of carrying on letting my child disrupt the service or leave.
Having had a number of discussions with other mothers we have realised that almost all of the moaning and complaining, which was rarely done directly, was coming from three people.
Three people out of about 150.
I'm not going to be hounded out of my church by three miserable people.
Interestingly, a very large noticed appeared on the parent and child room recently, aggressively stating that the door "MUST be kept closed during services". We don't want to hear you at all, in other words. I'm thinking that an "accident" may well happen to it in due course.

alltheworld my church has a family service on Christmas morning. I really hope that wherever you go you would be welcomed, as you should be.

I think your DD was just being 2, OP, and entirely normal behaviour at family service. There are some really sad stories here of children being pushed out of church - these churches are bound to reap what they sow. My church has a creche run by a wonderful group of largely over 70 yr old women which enables parents to be fed by the service and children under 3 to play. How else will they get used to coming to church - many stay in for part and go out once they are very restless. We also have non verbal learning disabled adults who love the singing and are certainly not expected to be quiet. I would expect this to be the minimum, not anything special.

OP the church is for your child as much as anyone else - take her and she will learn how to be comfortable there and they will learn much from her too