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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

about toddlers at children's service?

95 replies

Maybejustme · 13/12/2015 14:44

DD is just 2. She's very lively and I spend a lot of time making sure she isn't getting into mischief. We don't go to church very often because she's unlikely to sit still and I don't want to disturb the congregation generally.

However, this morning was the children's Christmas service at our village church. I went along with a friend, who has a DD of similar age. The toddlers, as expected, didn't sit still and were bouncing around and jumping up and down in the area at the side. I figured, though, that as long as they were doing it relatively quietly (well mostly - there was the odd squawk) we wouldn't disturb the other kids and so didn't take DD out. Occasionally, she did make a run for the alter area and I had to pick her up quickly and tell her no etc. Whilst I was quite self conscious, I was generally glad we'd taken them.
However, there were a couple of older ladies who were pretty disapproving and one seemed cross with us both during the service and again on the way out. Aibu to think that this is what toddlers will do and that it's perhaps inevitable that there might be such behaviour exhibited at a service specifically aimed at children? It has reinforced my nervousness of taking her to church. I don't know if actually I'm just being really precious and actually we were annoying everyone but the others were too polite to say anything. ..

OP posts:

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 13/12/2015 15:32

YNB precious, at all.
I'm very sorry for the my child was perfect at that age brigade but meanwhile here in the real world. Toddlers sitting bolt right with their fingers on their lips reciting the whole service word for word, ain't going to happen.
I swear some of these miserable people must have never been children.

CheesyNachos · 13/12/2015 15:35

I agree with a pp. My church that I used to attend regularly has an elderly congregation who are dying at a rate of knots. And they say on their board 'all are welcome in our church'.

Not if you are a child you are not it seems.

Owllady · 13/12/2015 15:39

Or are disabled
She has been stared at for singing too loud! Not in our village church I hasten to add, but I'm too frightened to take her there now and she just loves going (I think it's the structure, singing etc)
We've been invited to the Baptist church though for Christmas, so we are going to try that

Gileswithachainsaw · 13/12/2015 15:41

To me, YABU. Yes it is a children's service but I would expect the children to remain seated during the service and kept amused with books etc if they get restless. I would not expect them to be running around. They might as well not be there if all they are going to do is play IMO

why are books and crayons MN answer to everything.

neither of mine would have been occupied by a book for more than a minute or two. ditto crayons.

no one's said the kids should he dancing on the alter.

but a service that is interactive or less formal. bean bags and story telling etc

or just an area with toys is surely a reasonable idea surely?

I don't believe in any of that stuff so my kids wouldn't go to church but we used to have a vicar whi cane in to my primary school.

he was loud and enthusiastic and cheerful and kind and he kept your interest.

obviously a kicking screaming destructive toddler should he taken out and brought back when calmed down but one just playing quietly with a few toys or having a bit of a wander out the way is surely fine.

honkinghaddock · 13/12/2015 15:43

Sevenofninetrue- People with severe disabilities not welcome either then?

Rivercam · 13/12/2015 15:44

I think it depends how disruptive the children are. If they are playing quietly, and not interrupting the service then that's fine. However, if they are being noisy, causing chaos etc then I think that's not okay.

honkinghaddock · 13/12/2015 15:51

So children/people who can't be quiet not welcome?

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 13/12/2015 15:55

Seven. I take your kids are or were little saints, then. .

WeThreeMythicalKings · 13/12/2015 15:59

I used to go to church with my parents and I was taught and understood how to behave in church. There were quiet toys and games for DCs in the corner, like in many churches today but no running about or shrieking.

If DCs have no disabilities there's no need for them to be disruptive.

possiblefutures · 13/12/2015 16:03

They might as well not be there if all they are going to do is play IMO.

Do you think the two-year-olds should be listening attentively so that they can discuss nuanced theological intricacies with their parents after the service?

GinIsTheBestChristmasSpirit · 13/12/2015 16:05

They would hate my church then. We often have kids colouring and playing, running and dancing and randomly shouting. That's every week!

In a children's service you should absolutely NOT go if you have such low tolerance for actual children.

EponasWildDaughter · 13/12/2015 16:06

I'm the first to get grumpy when kids run about in restaurants or cinemas but I think it is lovely to see them in church.

this.

These days it's seen as ok for kids to make themselves known a bit more than it was in the past. Children being seen and not heard used to be the norm, now something between that and children running riot is acceptable.

It seems that 'the church' ie: the vicars mentioned here, understand that children should be welcome in church.

The OPs service was a children's service remember. I'm sure the older members of the congregation were there to enjoy it as such, and as such should have been prepared to see and hear children! Would they have preferred a child free child's service? FGS.

DinoSnores · 13/12/2015 16:07

"there were a couple of older ladies who were pretty disapproving and one seemed cross with us both during the service and again on the way out."

Did they actually say anything or was it one of those strange MN times when you just knew what they were thinking? You know, just before we all pile in!

StarkyTheDirewolf · 13/12/2015 16:08

Dm is a vicar and has been known to scoop up a little one and do the service whilst coo-in at a baby! All age services are expected to be slightly chaotic! That's half the fun! I would encourage you to tell the vicar about your experience, if people with kids don't attend, as a pp said, churches will run out of congragation! At my dms church there is a children's corner and a little room off the side if parents want to use during the service for upset babies or whatnot, no expectations of them to use it though.

hefzi · 13/12/2015 16:08

Usually a children's service is more interactive and has various things going on for children throughout: so ordinarily, children are constantly involved. That said, it's not unreasonable for children to amuse themselves quietly playing at the back in any service - racing around and shrieking isn't appropriate ever: but it doesn't sound as though this was what was going on.

Don't let it put you off going - the precise reason for children's services is to encourage those whose children might not be able to sit quietly in a pew, amusing themselves, for whatever reason, also to be able to go to church and to be involved. Children's services didn't exist in our parish in the 70s, so my mother took us to the neighbouring one, which was larger and also had a Sunday School - we were certainly expected to behave properly and appropriately in our own church when we went, but as we had been going from birth, perhaps that never actually became an issue.

There are inevitably people who tut at children in church - just as there are also people delighted to see the next generation involved. Just continue to go, and continue to enjoy the experience - and ignore the tutters. It's not about being smug or what would Jesus do: it's about responding in an appropriate and dignified manner to unwarranted criticism.

taybert · 13/12/2015 16:09

But children ARE sometimes noisy, I know that the popular view on here is that children can be controlled but I don't find it to be the case 100% of the time and I'm not a soft touch. Sometimes they will shout out, sometimes little ones will run off, you can do your best to contain them, you obviously make sure that they aren't damaging anything or themselves and you stay with them but it just isn't possible to have them quiet and sitting still all the time.
We don't go to church often, partly because of some of the attitudes expressed in this thread, but when we do someone ALWAYS says to us how pleased they are to see the children and thanks us for coming. A childrens' service isn't a frequent event, I think it would be reasonable to put up with children in church once in a while. Otherwise very soon there won't be a church to go to and be po faced and people will have to find cafes and restaurants to hate children in.

ExBallerina · 13/12/2015 16:09

I don't attend church, so neither does my DD.

However, we have been to family confirmations when she was a baby and slept the whole time and I remember kids being there with IPads, game consoles, snacks, what have you.

I get it-parents want them to be quiet. But doesn't all that take away from the reverence of the service?

Personally I'd rather see toddlers up and exploring the church than the former.

Yanbu, is basically what I'm saying...

reni2 · 13/12/2015 16:10

I have never been to a children's service, but I would expect toddlers to run around during one.

SantanaLopez · 13/12/2015 16:14

It's hard to say without being there.... we all do get a bit immune to our own children's noise.

I take my bunch every week and although they certainly don't sit still, I don't allow them to bounce or jump, partly because the pews are fecking solid and a bump will hurt and partly because I think it's a bit disrespectful.

I think there is a middle ground between 'seen and not heard' and shrugging off awful behaviour as 'well, they're toddlers'.

Quite nasty age-ist posts on here as wel....

elfycat · 13/12/2015 16:16

I no longer attempt to go to church with my DDs. There was always an air of not wanting kids there, even at the family service (the local church has a 9am service and then a 1045 one for families).

I quit going at all on the day DD2 was Christened, when not 5 mins after she was 'welcomed to the church' we were asked to think about stepping outside because there was going to be a 2 min silence shortly afterwards.

Let me get this right: On Battle of Britain service day you want to ask the mother of the extremely-recently Christened child, the DD of a serviceman who did 22 years in the army, to leave the church so you can have your silence. In addition you want to also ask a medically retired RAF officer to leave with her children (for your precious silence) on Battle of Britain Day?

Sod you then. I left and haven't been back. Waited outside for the Christening party to join me.

YANBU, they are in spades.

Jw35 · 13/12/2015 16:19

'Let the little children come to me..' Said Jesus. YANBU 2 year olds should be welcome in church, family service or otherwise. 2 year olds can't keep still it's almost impossible!

RaisingSteam · 13/12/2015 16:21

For ages in church we actually avoided the "childrens services". Unless the leadership are very good, and make it very interactive, it's usually an adult-centred service with a couple of kids songs and an activity that some junior school age children might relate to. It was a nightmare for very fidgety toddlers/pre-schoolers. Battling through with snacks, books, colouring, taking out... remind me why we're going to church in the first place?

It was a revelation (as it were) for me to see the services for the first time through children's eyes, - how inaccessible the language, how little the structure catered to a short attention span - how much standing around and singing/reading songs they wouldn't know.

Unfortunately too many churches won't make any allowance for children being children, and are then baffled when families don't come along to their services. They should spend half a day at a playgroup.

I'm gutted that after 30 years, for this reason, i don't go to church any more.

babyboomersrock · 13/12/2015 16:33

They might as well not be there if all they are going to do is play

Or, the adults might as well not be there if all they are going to do is look pious and not practise what their bible tells them maybe?

I'm no longer a church-goer, but I cherish the memory of a little boy running up and down the pulpit steps, banging the door while the minister was attempting to preach the sermon. It was his son. Made the rest of us parents feel very smug

Viviennemary · 13/12/2015 16:40

WAs it was a children's service there would be a bit more tolerance and even I'd expect that. But there is no excuse for children running round in church. It's hard to tell how much of a disruption they were being unless you were actually there. A children's service isn't a free for all to behave as badly and be as noisy as you wish.

Sadik · 13/12/2015 16:40

Your old ladies should go to a service where we used to live in Spain. There was a small array of chairs in the centre of the church close to the altar for those who needed/wanted to sit down, other than that it was just open space with people wandering in and out, children milling around, and general chatting. The few times I went (friends' christenings/weddings/first communions only as I'm not religious) I didn't actually even figure out whether there was a sermon, it was that noisy!

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