Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

about toddlers at children's service?

95 replies

Maybejustme · 13/12/2015 14:44

DD is just 2. She's very lively and I spend a lot of time making sure she isn't getting into mischief. We don't go to church very often because she's unlikely to sit still and I don't want to disturb the congregation generally.

However, this morning was the children's Christmas service at our village church. I went along with a friend, who has a DD of similar age. The toddlers, as expected, didn't sit still and were bouncing around and jumping up and down in the area at the side. I figured, though, that as long as they were doing it relatively quietly (well mostly - there was the odd squawk) we wouldn't disturb the other kids and so didn't take DD out. Occasionally, she did make a run for the alter area and I had to pick her up quickly and tell her no etc. Whilst I was quite self conscious, I was generally glad we'd taken them.
However, there were a couple of older ladies who were pretty disapproving and one seemed cross with us both during the service and again on the way out. Aibu to think that this is what toddlers will do and that it's perhaps inevitable that there might be such behaviour exhibited at a service specifically aimed at children? It has reinforced my nervousness of taking her to church. I don't know if actually I'm just being really precious and actually we were annoying everyone but the others were too polite to say anything. ..

OP posts:

chillycurtains · 13/12/2015 16:49

It's worth noting it was a couple of old ladies not 'the church'. The church or their leaders cannot stop grumpy old ladies any more than they stop toddlers running around. It's all to do with exceptence and love for one another. Ignore the grumpy people.

Mark 10 v 13 'And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them. 14 But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, "Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.'

chillycurtains · 13/12/2015 16:51

Sadlik Now that is church.

Imustgodowntotheseaagain · 13/12/2015 18:35

Our lovely lady vicar gave the more boisterous little ones flags to wave, so even if they didn't know the words they could join in with the songs.

I was once at an event where the Archbishop of Canterbury was welcoming a new vicar. Two little boys spent most of the event fighting and stuffing canapes down the back of an armchair, until the point where Archbishop George began his speech. At that point one burst into inconsolable wailing.

Like the RC priest mentioned earlier, Archbishop George stopped and said that children are a blessing and it was a wonderful thing to hear them.

It's sad to read that lots of church leaders and members didn't get that memo!

Original poster

Maybejustme · 13/12/2015 18:54

Thanks very much for the responses. I am interested (seriously, not sarcastically) whether those who think IABU would have preferred us not to have gone at all or whether there was something else we could reasonably have done, having gone? Obviously we already spent the whole service telling them to be still, not to wriggle, that it was very important to be quiet in church etc. They are just two years old. We were doing everything in our power to keep the situation under control. Is it just a blanket ban? And if so, until what age?

OP posts:

tilliebob · 13/12/2015 18:58

I find some very unchristian attitudes in our Kirk sometimes. My minister is a similar age to me and she doesn't give a fig if a little one scampers up the aisle. I've breastfed my kids in the Kirk so has she and her view is you have to get youngsters into church or the congregation will die off.

YANBU op

HippyPottyMouth · 13/12/2015 19:06

The first time I took DD to church, she was nearly 2. I had books, colouring and raisins at the ready. We lasted all of five minutes before scarpering to the toddler corner. Books are as noisy as conversation, colouring only works if there aren't lots of interesting and new sights and sounds and smells to ask me about, and raisins don't work if she's not hungry.

Yes, she plays with trains and doesn't spend the time pondering her immortal soul, but some of it is sinking in - at the Peace a couple of weeks ago, she gave one of the other little girls a big hug as I shook her dad's hand. She'll learn the service and the hymns the same way any of us did - by repeated exposure.

randomsabreuse · 13/12/2015 19:07

I've had nothing but a warm welcome at 2 cathedrals and our parish church with my 4 month old. One of the Cathedral Canons was saying about her son being talkative in church and going through various phases. I do try to keep mine quiet so everyone can listen but have been told many times not to worry.

Original poster

Maybejustme · 13/12/2015 19:22

Sorry - I should have said that the "taking them outside" strategy pretty much equates to a blanket ban when they are this wriggly. It's not that that hasn't occurred to me, obviously!

I also remember as a child being taught to behave properly in church, but I only remember occasions when I was much older than two. (Possibly though because I can remember very little about being two, I guess...)

OP posts:

MrsBobDylan · 13/12/2015 19:28

Yanbu - please keep taking your child and don't let anyone put you off.

I thought for years that a lady in my church was scowling at me and my dc, then when my Dad died this year she found me crying and gave me a huge hug. It turned out she knew one of my dc is disabled and there was no hint of resentment there.

I'd got it wrong.

That said, some did make comments to me about dc2 and now I don't bring him to church at all. His disability is such that he swears repeatedly, hits and screams so it's impossible. It makes me want to give up my faith as I don't want to be somewhere my son can't be.

Imustgodowntotheseaagain · 13/12/2015 19:34

Genuine question - why do people feel it is vital that everyone be quiet and sit respectfully in church?

Obviously for a funeral, it's different, but everyday worship should be a joyful thing. In my view, anyway.

PurpleDaisies · 13/12/2015 19:37

Genuine question - why do people feel it is vital that everyone be quiet and sit respectfully in church?

It isn't sitting quiet and respectfully-it is just difficult to hear the sermon if there's a lot of noise! Our church has separate children's groups so they can learn from the bible in an age appropriate way and also run around having lots of fun.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 13/12/2015 19:39

Things that constitute proper behaviour in church are different these days than 20 years ago.

We are meant to have a more inclusive engaging and tolerant expectations.

Eminado · 13/12/2015 19:40

"Today 15:59 WeThreeMythicalKings

I used to go to church with my parents and I was taught and understood how to behave in church. There were quiet toys and games for DCs in the corner, like in many churches today but no running about or shrieking.

If DCs have no disabilities there's no need for them to be disruptive."

You were a silent 2 year old? Can we verify this with your parents please?

Eminado · 13/12/2015 19:44

"Today 15:30 SevenOfNineTrue

To me, YABU. Yes it is a children's service but I would expect the children to remain seated during the service and kept amused with books etc if they get restless. I would not expect them to be running around. They might as well not be there if all they are going to do is play IMO."

They are 2 not 10!

Posts like this make me realise why a lot of people cant take Christianity seriously.

OP - please keep taking your kids to church.

BlackeyedSusan · 13/12/2015 19:45

oh for God's sake. You were going to worship the bloke who encouraged the toddlers and children to come for a blessing and told off his followers for trying to stop them. our church has a window which says suffer the little children (and boy do we all suffer when ds goes)

taybert · 13/12/2015 19:47

These questions come up time and time again about the "appropriateness" of children in certain places and there are always posters who say that being 2 isn't an excuse to "behave badly". They're right, it isn't. They shouldn't be hitting or spitting or swearing or poking anyone in the eye. But wandering off and saying loudly "why has that man got a funny dress? What is he saying? I can see baby Jesus!" is just what toddlers do, you may as well ask them not to breathe as ask them not to do it. So the "I don't mind children in church as long as the sit quietly and still" brigade actually mean than they DO mind children under a certain age in church. That is a problem.

Eminado · 13/12/2015 19:52

It is more than a problem. It is a hideously unChristian attitude. Selfish, judgemental, unkind - no fruits of the Spirit there at all.

Mothers are probably the demographic MOST in need of spiritual support imho. It can be such a trying and relentless time and the support -or lack thereof-- they receive can impact families immeasurably.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 13/12/2015 19:53

At our church, the kids hang around for the first couple of hymns and Childrens address, then go downstairs for stories and games while the sermon, intercessions and all the more solemn stuff is going on.

Kids come downstairs from the age of three or so. Younger than that they wander around during the service or sometimes get taken into the crèche area.

startwig1982 · 13/12/2015 19:54

My church is fantastic for this. We started going regularly when we got tuts for then 2 yo ds walking around in our old church.
By contrast, he spent a lot of time at our new church pushing his buggy around, standing at the front dancing and hiding under the table. No one batted an eyelid. Now my dd has started walking, she's going to be the same.

BlackeyedSusan · 13/12/2015 20:00

ps, on the plus side, you did not have a child having an autistic meltdown in church today kicking tables and turning chairs over. nor the time he ran off and gave one of the grave stones a good kicking before I could catch him. nor the time he attempted to kick in the stained glass windows at the cathedral. nor the time he threw a toy car at the church warden... nor try to kick me and the radiator or anything else he could reach. nor kick the door. (on several different occasions.) all this despite keeping a very close eye on him and generally trying to stay in grabbing distance.

SantanaLopez · 13/12/2015 20:00

It's finding a balance. I don't see why people seem to be so polarised.

A church isn't a playground (and I've never been in one which I would let my DC wander away from me, childproofed they are not, ime) but it isn't a prison either.

Everyone in the church is equal, no one has more right than anyone else to be there and everyone's got to pull together so that people looking for quiet reflection and people looking for a family friendly space manage to get along. Give and take has to happen on BOTH sides.

SantanaLopez · 13/12/2015 20:01

We once arrived late and DD bellowed 'HIYA JESUS' at the very top of her lungs during a very, very silent moment, before sitting down as if to say 'Mischief managed!'

Owllady · 13/12/2015 20:02

I hear you mrsbobdylan x

DrewsWife · 13/12/2015 20:05

We attend our church almost weekly. I have a 1 year old. He particularly loves the echo in the hall. So will spend a good proportion of his time yelling and waiting for the echo. He is now mobile so wanders about. When the band plays he helps conduct and does the same with the choir.

He is the next generation. He is too little to understand much.

I have spent years telling others with small children not to worry about their children wandering about.

Family services are for children. Not old folk.

Take snacks. A bag of toys. Books. Sit at the back with colouring in books. If they wander. Instill a boundary of sorts. Never sweat the small stuff.

PitilessYank · 13/12/2015 20:07

I went with a friend to a Mormon church service once, and say what you like about Mormons, but I was thrilled that during the service there were kids toddling around, continuous sounds of children chattering, and repeated vocalizations from a developmentally delayed person and no one said Boo about it. It was so refreshing and free (perhaps unlike some of the tenets of the faith, one might say.)

I am always happier in places that are kid-friendly.

Flip

1 2 3 4