AIBU to think that people should stop claiming we are a Christian country.

[Ohbehave1]

Church attendances are at a very low level. How can we claim to be Christian when virtually no one goes to church any more. It seems people are when it suits them ( births, deaths and marriages or to be anti non Christian )

"Head of the established church" established so one monarch could break the rules of the other "established church" and not grounded in Lutherism at all.... yeah whatever, the CofE is Catholicism lite and not really a religion in its own right at all. No one outside of England takes it seriously, and very few in England actually go... load of bollocks.

We are secular.

Most baby and toddler groups are run by the church. Most food banks are run by the church. I think you'd be surprised by how much the church does to hold the country together socially - for Christians and people with other beliefs.
I also think it depends where you are in the country. Here in the west country our local church is having to fund raise so it can build an extention as they can't get everyone in. The church we attend is large and never empty on a Sunday with lots of other activities in the week.
True Christians are loving and caring, welcoming all no matter who they are - surely that's a great ethos to stand by whether you believe in God or not?

" And I've elucidated about all I care to"

So you're perfectly happy with leaving the impression that you expect the UK to become an Islamic state in the foreseeable future?

LongTimeLurker- that post is so colossally ignorant that I don't know where to start! I think I might just leave it...........

longtime Do you accept that the country gives the Christian Church and Christian religion unique status in law, though?

Divorce not withstanding, only the Christian Church is the only Religion with the power to conduct a legally recognised marriage independent of a registrar, for instance.

The Christian Church has unique status within our laws - does that not make us a Christian country?

(Again, I'm using Christian with a capital C to define the church - not a belief system).

Its not ignorant, its true, actually who does take notice of the CofE?

Being loving and caring aren't specific to Christians anymore than it is specific to train drivers. As I alluded to earlier, the church has had to be dragged into the 21st century via society, not the other way round. If you support gay marriage you are morally at odds to the bible and are doing so in light of your advanced thinking on humanity and equality.

There is a vast communion of Anglicans outside the UK- so people in other countries do "take it seriously"

There are significant doctrinal differences between Anglicanism and RC.

The word secular has a meaning. England is not a secular country.

hackmum of course all those things - democracy, pluralism, liberalism are recent developments, but they have 'naturally', evolved from us being a predominantly Christian country. That, is I think the common belief. Not mine I might add...

Contrary to what some Christians say, democracy is not inherent in or mandated by Christianity , especially since so many fellow Christians also work towards reductions in democratic liberty and personal autonomy in so many contexts.

Just as you can't bully and bomb another nation-state into being a liberal democracy. You can't really say 'we're christian therefore we're a democratic and liberal nation/state'. After all, democracy has been around long before Christianity, in ancient Greece. And that wasn't a democratic if you were a woman or a slave.

"British society is based upon judeo-Christian ethics - note I said ethics, not ideology. Thou shalt not murder , thou shalt not steal etc."

Ha!

You can definitely be pro gay marriage and be Christian. I have many issues with the church but that's a different story.

Most people who are religious choose which bits they believe in, and discard the bits they don't like. You buy the whole lot or nothing at all in my opinion.

That's fundamentalism, taking everything literally rather than in its historical context.

Historical context

But as we speak no two Christians agree what does and doesn't mean what it says. It appears that passages that we find discriminatory are not seen is so until the reader is within a society that finds it discriminatory. Take the gay thing for example, 50 years ago few Christians would have been pro-gay rights, but now many are. But they were in communication with the same God weren't though, so it was our development outside of any religion that has forced the revision of scripture. And the gays who were abused/scorned 50 years ago? I assume God wasn't happy about that then what with him being pro-gay all along? And he didn't see the problem with the book looking like he had a problem with it. But of a head fucker isn't he.

I'm struggling to understand how anyone can say the whole bible is mythology after a space of over 2000 years. I'm sure there are some pretty factual occurrences there even if you disregard the God part.

Depends what you mean by a 'Christian country' really. How would we ever agree on what constitutes a definition for the term? What percentage of citizens must be Christian, if this is to be the main factor? How closely policies and practices of the country must reflect the values and teachings of the church, if that's the criteria. We could never decide. There will be some people who think it is and some who think it isn't, always. As many times as there are citizens in Britain. So while YANBU to feel it isn't a Christian country, YADBU to tell anyone else whether they can call Britain a Christian country.

Puzzles me too. Given that Disraeli was a Tory PM

I believe Disraeli converted to Christianity, specifically Anglicanism, prior to becoming PM. Whether that was a genuine or an expedient conversion I don't know.

Sometimes it seems the values of the church and Jesus don't correlate.

There is no objective record of the teachings and values of Jesus - the bible is written by other men; there is no Gospel according to Christ.

It is hardly a surprise that the Church has not blindly adopted the values and teachings of the various men who recorded their interpretation of what Jesus allegedly said.

Not everyone likes church, people can follow the religion in a different way.

Lots of people I know (Catholics) dislike the church aspect due to the asking for money constantly and the whole priest sex allegation issues they say they no longer trust their priests but still follow their religion.

if your faith says that, then I would expect you to adhere to those core principles

Expect? One of the principles of Christianity is to not judge others. We're all only human.

Why pick out Christians in particular? We often hear that you don't need religion to have a moral code - fair enough. But in that case, I assume you also judge everyone else for not living up to their own moral code, as we're all human and imperfect.