AIBU to think that people should stop claiming we are a Christian country.

[Ohbehave1]

Church attendances are at a very low level. How can we claim to be Christian when virtually no one goes to church any more. It seems people are when it suits them ( births, deaths and marriages or to be anti non Christian )

It's usually a disguised way of saying - 'we don't want you Muslims and your Sharia law gaining any more of a foothold here'...

The problem with this debate is that there isn't a clear understanding of what is meant by the term "Christian country". Can a country have a religion? People have a religion, yes, but a country? So by the term "Christian country" we either mean "The majority of the population practise Christianity" (which is clearly not true) or "The state and the church are closely intertwined" (which is true, in that the head of state, the Queen, is also the head of the established church, and we still have the bench of bishops in the House of Lords, state schools still have to provide a daily Christian worship etc).

Bertrand sorry, my post was aimed at the OP, should've made that clear.

Madbengalmum- can you say more about YABU, we ARE a christian country, and it is due to comments like yours OP, that our values are being eroded and / or being taken over by other religions, who unreasonably feel it is their right to come to this country and impose their beliefs?

And permalice-a more in depth survey after the census showed that the number of people in this country who regarded themselves as members of a Christian faith to be 47%.

Og course the UK is a christian country. There is no separation of church and state. Remember in school when you did Henry viii and his 6 wives? Thats where it comes from. Pope wouldnt grant Henry an anullment of his marriage to Katherine of Aragon so that he could marry Anne Boylen, so he made himself head of the church. Thats why there are unelected bishops in the house of lords, and why parliament starts everyday with prayers.

good points hackmum. I think often people use the term 'Christian' thinking it means that we are tolerant, democratic, liberal, pluralistic and all the other things we're rightly proud of. Quite often though it's used as a counterpoint to perceived 'Islamification'.

batshitlady: "I think often people use the term 'Christian' thinking it means that we are tolerant, democratic, liberal, pluralistic and all the other things we're rightly proud of."

Yes, but it's kind of an odd appropriation of the term, really. Because this country has been nominally Christian for hundreds of years, whereas being democratic, liberal and the rest of it is a fairly recent phenomenon.

Back in the early 19th century - when almost everyone still attended church - you could still be hanged for shoplifting. Women have had the vote for less than 100 years. Homosexual acts were only legalised in 1967. In fact, the increasing liberalisation of the law with regards to capital punishment, homosexuality, divorce, adultery and so on has gone hand-in-hand with increasing secularisation. The less Christian we've become, the more liberal-minded we've become.

Taking faith, beliefs and values out of the equation, this country is considered "Christian" because the Christian church has been granted powers over and above that held by other religions.

The Christian Church (not all, but many denominations) can legally marry couples. That is not a legal power held by any other religion. Christian worship is written into law as a requirement of state-provided education - no other religion has that. Christian churches have unique legal/financial status. Christian ministers have unique employment rights. There are lots of other examples which my DD is only to happy to list!

Whether it not these things should be the case, they are currently in place - and that's why this country is described as "Christian" - because the church has a unique status in our laws and statute.

We are legally a Christian country. Parliament gets its power from the Queen, who is appointed by God. This is genuinely the basis of our unwritten constitution.

I think the term 'Christian values' is problematic because what some see as Christian values are not specific to Christianity. Homophobia, slavery and the subjugation of women are biblical values but I'm guessing people who talk about Christian values don't mean them. They only mean the ones that match our 21st century morals and ignore the ugly ones.

Well, I think some of the posters here who have such disdain for the Judeo-Christian Greco-Roman heritage in the West (and blame that heritage for the evils, inequities, and hypocrisies that occur in any society) may be going to have their eyes opened to the beauties of other cultural heritages or the beauties of a secular state within their lifetimes. And, echoing what others keep pointing out, liberalism grew out of Christian thought, not in spite of it. And, yes, I and many of those who do feel that most countries in the West are Christian nations know plenty, a bunch, enormous amounts about the social and economic history of the West! We also know plenty about world history, IYSWIM.

ego How so? Even if the moral and ethical arguments don't stand up to scrutiny, the status of "Christianity" is awarded benefits legislatively.
Hence, the country is 'Christian' by virtue of its legislation, if not the faith of its population.

"may be going to have their eyes opened to the beauties of other cultural heritages or the beauties of a secular state within their lifetimes"

Happy to have a secular state.

And no, I don't think that the UK is going to become an Islamic state.

I mean, the Christian Church (or specific denominations of it) are awarded additional powers and hold unique status in law.

There is a difference between Christian and christian

The country runs the risk of losing its identity, nothing against those who come to this country and integrate, whether christian beliefs or not.
We are a christian country, and those living here, whether they agree with religion or not must respect that.

Liberalism grew out of Christian thought.

Which is why the church is always at the cutting edge of eradicating discrimination. The church was promoting equality long before the general population. It wasn't until the church allowed female bishops that other sections of society started to view the sexes as equal. Oh wait, I've got that round the wrong way!

When I referred to your and others of your mindset possibly getting a chance to have your eyes opened to the beauties of other cultural heritages, I meant exactly that. The noun heritages is plural -- as in more than one. They're all different, and I think that many posters like you are going to have their eyes opened to the realities of many of their practices and beliefs. And, or perhaps in tandem, you WILL get a chance to see a secular state. It's never been pretty before, but you could get lucky.

"The country runs the risk of losing its identity,"

How?

PoorFannyRobin, I'm afraid you are going to have to be more explicit- I don't understand.