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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect DSS to use cutlery?

78 replies

FullmoonHalfmoonTotaleclipse · 04/12/2015 23:17

DSS is in year 8. He still uses his fingers whenever he can for eating non finger foods such as pasta in sauce or Yorkshire puddings covered in gravy (he has no additional needs precluding the use of a knife & fork).

I find this not only unpleasant to watch (as do his siblings who pick him up on it regularly) but afterwards he either wipes his fingers on his clothes, the seat cushion etc or we get stickiness/mess on the walls and door handles.

I feel embarrassed going out and about with a 12yo who constantly has food smears all over his clothing. DH doesn't seem that bothered by it but at DSS's age is it unreasonable to expect him to use cutlery and not be wiping his dirty fingers everywhere? I don't have DC of my own so am prepared to be told my expectations are too high.

OP posts:
Asteria36 · 05/12/2015 00:43

A friend of ds is here tonight. At the children's supper time I had to leave the kitchen as he was eating so badly and I was itching to nag him about it. Holding his knife upright in a closed fist and fork straight down in a closed fist, contorting himself ridiculously to cut food and then using his fingers to eat (open mouthed) whilst still holding cutlery in the same hand. It was hell to watch.

It is a real bugbear of ours and DH is constantly getting at his own DC (my DSC) for waving their knives about and picking up food with their fingers (nearly 10 and 7). When I was growing up I cannot remember a single peer of mine being so slovenly at the table, but nowadays every other child seems incapable of even holding their knife and fork properly, let alone using them! Don't parents teach them any more?

NeedsAsockamnesty · 05/12/2015 00:46

I agree with trinity many meals in many places or many components of meals are eaten with fingers and it's perfectly acceptable. People should be able to relax and eat how they wish in their own home providing they are not doing something gross, eating food with clean hands is not gross.

He does use cutlery so he does know how he is choosing not to this is an action that does not in itself cause harm or problems for other people.

The problem you have is what he does with his hands after.

He's old enough to clean up after himself and he's old enough to wipe his hands give him the facility to do so.

You may find that a side effect of enforcing this means he chooses to use cutlery more frequently

LucyBabs · 05/12/2015 00:58

I never understood the angst with this issue. I have no problem eating with my hands, fingers, whatever! I don't insist my dc use cutlery...my exdp does. I totally get your problem with wiping his dirty hands into his clothes or on walls etc (Does he really do this and get away with it?!)

TrinityForce · 05/12/2015 00:59

Give him a tissue then. He can wipe his hands when he's done, not on clothes/handles/doors.

thornrose · 05/12/2015 01:06

Agreed it is the wiping, smearing after eating that is the problem. It reminds me of a form of dirty protest!

Original poster
FullmoonHalfmoonTotaleclipse · 05/12/2015 01:06

DH doesn't not care as such but he hates confrontation and has a blind spot to a few things. He's a great dad in many ways but a bit useless in others. On the plus side he will always consider my opinion even if he doesn't end up agreeing with md so its not quite a LTB situation yet but this issue is really frustrating me.

DSS has a cold packed lunch and isn't interested in seeing friends outside of school so he doesn't worry about showing himself up in social situations. Thing is he's capable of eating properly when he wants to, it's a won't rather than a can't. Sometimes DH will give him a piece of kitchen roll to use as goes along but he never wipes his hands properly and has to be nagged even to do that so I'd rather he was nagged to just use his cutlery in the first place.

I know it's perfectly acceptable in some cultures to use fingers to eat but I'm sorry, I don't want to watch a nearly-teen eat a roast dinner in this manner and neither do his siblings. He even picks up baked beans!

OP posts:
Original poster
FullmoonHalfmoonTotaleclipse · 05/12/2015 01:10

lucy he doesn't intentionally smear the walls of course, but typically he'll be leaving the room and stand at the doorway to carry on chatting with his hand leaning on the wall or the door handle etc. The walls/handles are really grubby. I once tried sponging the wall down and took a layer of paint off so it looks pretty crap whether I leave it or not!

OP posts:
Asteria36 · 05/12/2015 01:20

How about napkins for everyone and simply remind him to wipe his fingers on it every time he picks up something

Tartyflette · 05/12/2015 01:59

We were in northern Italy this autumn and I was gobsmacked at the number of young people (late teens/early 20s?) eating out in restaurants who just could not manage their cutlery at all, very similar to the PP who talked about 'knife held upright in closed fist, fork held downwards in closed fist.' Seeing them trying to cut their food was excruciating. And, to cap it all, I noticed this more than once in a pizza place! Where it is absolutely fine to pick up your food with your fingers. Just bizarre.

Tartyflette · 05/12/2015 02:37

Well, OP, it's your dinner table, in your home, so your rules, I reckon.
Your DH should back you up on this.
I have no problem in eating some food with my fingers - asparagus, chicken legs, spare ribs etc and was in fact brought up in a country where it was customary to eat, say, rice with meat in sauce with the fingers, but it was done with scrupulously clean hands, and very neatly, even gracefully (which takes a bit of practice Grin ) and hands would be washed with bowls of water and dried with cloths before leaving the meal.
Consideration for others was paramount.
Which is what table manners are all about. Many people find it unpleasant to see messy eating, open mouthed chewing, food being shovelled in willy-nilly or spread around the place.
While it's OK for toddlers while they are learning it looks a bit gross IMO to see 12-13 year olds eating pasta and sauce or roast beef, veg and gravy with their bare hands.

KoalaDownUnder · 05/12/2015 02:57

Wow. I don't think that's remotely normal (barring special needs) or acceptable. Nobody should have to watch that, it's disgusting!

If we had eaten with our fingers in the way you described, we would have been told to leave the table. Or not given pudding.

I think it's neglectful to allow a child to carry on eating like that into their teens. It's failing to teach them basic social skills/ manners.

Dontunderstand01 · 05/12/2015 06:01

My dnoeces eat like this and as a result I can't eat a meal with them. All the mess and shovelling food in their mouths turns my stomach. No idea what the solution is other than being on it 24/7 which is no doubt exhausting.

feckitall · 05/12/2015 06:21

I found removal of plates from in front of them every time they showed poor table manners worked best.
I too had friends of the DC round, a 'eat nicely please' was the one chance to rectify bad manners after that offenders were never invited again.

mummytime · 05/12/2015 06:58

I think you really need to consider if there is more to it than "being babied" or "not being challenged".

Even if he has packed lunch and never socialises, it is extremely unusual to not know the social cues and realise this behaviour is unacceptable.
The only reason I could see a young person of this age doing this if they had no SN would be if he was doing it to deliberately provoke you.

Lots of people do slip through the net for having their SN diagnosed.

Senpai · 05/12/2015 07:49

just leave the lad be, does it matter?

Yes. Table manners matter.

HTH

Original poster
FullmoonHalfmoonTotaleclipse · 05/12/2015 08:24

Honestly he knows the social rules but he simply doesn't care in the same way that some teenagers can live in a filthy dirty bedroom quite happily.

It's interesting that it's unusual enough at his age for some posters to think it must be some underlying issue - I now feel totally comfortable to get DH to tackle this properly instead of the half assed attempts that he only does because I've nudged him under the table.

Thanks all, some good suggestions.

OP posts:
OhWotIsItThisTime · 05/12/2015 08:28

That is gross. You need to speak to your dh - pitch it as it will hold dss back in life if it's not sorted. Can you imagine him at a work Christmas do or taking a girl out for a meal?

frillybiscuits · 05/12/2015 08:39

I don't use cutlery for yorkshires, I think it's a controversial subject Wink

Yanbu though, if I think people are being gross whilst eating I just outright tell them child or not. Wiping dirty fingers too, it's all basic table manners and they need to be taught before it's too late. What about if he's on a date in a couple of years and he hasn't learnt table manners, it's not going to go well for him is it

Lucyccfc · 05/12/2015 08:41

My Nephew used to do this. I would just keep reminding him to use his fork. He would then pick up his food and place it on his fork. He was warned that if he continued to use his fingers, Inwoild remove his food. Only had to do this once and he got the message.

My house, my rules and everyone uses a knife and fork.

I have even had to tell DS's friends to use their forks or I would remove their food.

NaiceVillageOfTheDammed · 05/12/2015 08:41

"Does it matter?"

Yes.

  • Staff canteen at work, or taking clients out for buisness lunch/dinner.
  • Eating out in restaurants with family and friends.

So yes, it could affect your relationships as an adult and your job prospects.

If it were me, he'd be on soups/porridge till he used his cutlery.

Lucyccfc · 05/12/2015 08:43

Everyone gets sent to the sink to wash their hands when they have finished too (including me).

Blondeshavemorefun · 05/12/2015 08:44

Totally unacceptable

If a toddler /2/3yr can use cutlery then so can an older child - if no special needs - which he hasn't

Put stop and grow on all fingers and everytime use fingers take away a privilege / sure no phone Xbox tv etc and will soon start

It's basic good manners and you don't behave like that !!!

Tbh can't believe he's got to this age and still does it. Should have been nipped in the bud years ago

ProfessorPreciseaBug · 05/12/2015 08:44

We once aquired a lovely old moggie from an old man who had recently died. Unfortunately she used to steal food even though we always fed her properly. She would try and creep up on the table and sneak on top... At which point she got a water spray full in the face from my supersoaker... ! Water doesn't hurt... but it sure is undignified.

After a few attempts at stealing, she learned that it is easier to just eat from her bowl..

Children can be very much like animals.

BrandNewAndImproved · 05/12/2015 08:51

I've never used cutlery for Yorkshire's and my dm is hyacinth bucket.

Some things are ok to pick up when your at home. Chicken legs, Yorkshire's, pizza, ribs, ect.

It sounds like he eats the main part of his meal using cutlery and then picks the other bits up like I would.

Get a packet of wetwipes and as soon as he's finished tell him to use them. He also is old enough to repaint your dirty door frames, I have loads of sympathy on this one my dc are a nightmare for coming in and touching my walls.

Original poster
FullmoonHalfmoonTotaleclipse · 05/12/2015 08:55

professor are you suggesting I super soak my DSS? Shock Grin

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