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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think my sister should stand up for herself re Christmas leave

117 replies

Daisysbear · 03/12/2015 11:07

My sister has no children and, for the third year running, is being pressured to work on Christmas Day (It's a call centre type job). She, and other child free colleagues have been told that, as compensation, they can have New Year's Day off.

My sister is not in the least interested in hitting the town on NYE. She's in her forties and would really like to spend Christmas day with extended family, including our elderly mother.

I've told her to put her foot down, as she's being treated unfairly, but she's afraid she'll come across as selfish and begrudging.
AIBU to think she's being silly and perfectly entitled to object to being expected to work Christmas Day every year simply because she'd not a mother?

OP posts:

RandomMess · 03/12/2015 17:14

She needs to that she's not prepared to work every Christmas Day and that she doesn't want New Years Day off and her family is around then to spend time with them. She has worked the previous 2 and is happy to work next year but she wants this year off whilst her Mum is still here!

Splitting the day into 2 shifts would be much better tbh.

hettie · 03/12/2015 17:15

International IT clients, ofgs... Buy in some international cover....Australia is in a different time zone and I hear they may have some expertise...

TendonQueen · 03/12/2015 17:22

If it's pressure rather than an edict, definitely time to resist. I'd play the elderly parents card for all it was worth, and ask why time with children was so much more highly valued than time with the people who raised you and made sacrifices for you if anyone got shirty.

BoffinMum · 03/12/2015 17:29

I think people should take their turn. My dad regularly used to work on Christmas Day when we were little. It wasn't that big a deal to us, TBH.

RideEmCowgirl · 03/12/2015 17:30

I think it is so unfair and I have young children.

However if your sister isn't going to stand up for herself or be proactive and find the contract where it state's that she has to work or not, then she has to suck it up and get on with it.

I am rubbish with confrontation but if I know I am being unfairly treated and that bothers me then I will take it further. If verbally she gets nowhere then it needs to be put in an email.

Bullies don't like paper trails.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 03/12/2015 17:32

its shitty as hell, but it sounds like its a cultural thing and the management are colluding

I am not saying she rolls over, but sounds like for 2016 its going to be a struggle

definitely worth trying, but not all battles can be won

VinciWinchi · 03/12/2015 17:34

Very unfair. I say this as someone who has never worked Christmas as have always worked in Education. I can see it is hard for her to make a fuss - but agree you should help her to word something if she is prepared to make a stand.

LaContessaDiPlump · 03/12/2015 17:34

The ironic thing is that when the children of colleagues turn 18 and become adults, the colleagues will never see them for Christmas anyway.

'Cos adults without children should be happy to work over Christmas, innit.

D'you think the colleagues will complain when their own children are constrained by such rules? Do you?

Anotherusername1 · 03/12/2015 17:39

This is why it should be first come first served - with nobody higher up the chain trying to cancel it in favour of someone with kids, how outrageous! You might not have kids but you're someone else's kid! "Reminding people that parents like to spend time with their children". Yes any aged parent and any aged child.

I had one boss who decided that first come first served wasn't fair on the less organised folk and therefore everyone had to say when they wanted leave and she'd make a decision based on what she thought was fair. As it happened, I never had leave turned down, but I thought it was unfair.

Definitely ignore the emotional blackmail.

rookiemere · 03/12/2015 17:39

Thankfully our office is shut on Chrstmas Day and Boxing Day.

When DS was younger I really did appreciate having the full Christmas period off including the run up, but now DH is forced to take time off from 21st Dec for 2 weeks so it's not a huge bother for me to work part or even all of it so that's what I'm doing to give others a chance.

It's an absolutely unfair policy. For one thing, it's the one day of year where there's pretty much guaranteed to be other adults around the house so no childcare issue.

For next year I suggest that your Dsis puts her request in very early and says that she is planning to take her elderly parents away for Christmas ( they don't need to know that it's to the Toby carvery down the road) and as she has worked the last 3 Christmas's in a row, she feels that it is her turn.

StarkyTheDirewolf · 03/12/2015 17:41

Yanbu. Dh has to work Christmas eve night, we don't have children yet so it's not a massive problem, but I imagine I'd feel differently if we did. But then, in his line of work they get the text mid November to say that all staff will be working Christmas eve and nye or risk not being put on the rota for shifts for January.

rookiemere · 03/12/2015 17:41

Yes anotherusername1 - I've missed out on the villa that was ideal for ourselves and our friends as our management team took over 2 months to approve leave requests so that less organised people wouldn't feel left out.

misscarlar · 03/12/2015 18:04

I also work in a call centre roll we are open Xmas day but people volunteer and we do 4 hour shifts for 5 times normal salary it means no one is forced to work. As far as I know you can't be made to work xmas

Andrewofgg · 03/12/2015 18:18

To give preference to people with childcare responsibilities is almost certainly indirect age discrimination - and indeed indirect sex discrimination although that won't help the OP's sister because it is discriminatory against men.

And it does not matter whether the person without children wants to spend CD with elderly parents, or siblings and their children, or friends, or alone, or whatever - everyone's private life is of equal value and if you worked last CD you should not be called on to work this CD. Over time CD, weekends, and nights should be rostered equally, and then people allowed to swap - but allowed; not expected, forced, pressured, bullied or guilt-tripped.

Original poster

Daisysbear · 03/12/2015 18:24

I remember years ago this kind of thing used to happen all the time. But I thought most organisations had by now realised that discriminating against employees without young families is just as bad as discriminating against parents in the workplace.
Certainly where I work you wouldn't get away with that attitude anymore and anyone suggesting such a thing would get a fairly brisk answer.
I think my sister's workplace is a bit behind the times in this regard.

OP posts:

Andrewofgg · 03/12/2015 18:35

Within living memory it was part of received wisdom - among women as well as men - that men should be paid more for an identical job that women (there were separate pay-scales) and preferred for promotion because they needed the extra money.

To say that parents need to be excused the difficult shifts, including Christmas Day, should be regarded as equally preposterous.

OhYeahMama · 03/12/2015 18:36

I hope your sister challenges this!

I remember when I was single and childfree being told by married with kids co-worker who always got first pickings that it didn't matter when I took my holidays as I had nobody else to consider. I soon put her straight on that score and reminded her that I had family and friends to spend time with and had to co-ordinate with them too. When I became manager of the department I introduced a fairer system, she really resented me after that.

RaspberryOverload · 03/12/2015 18:45

I have children, and when I managed a department in my previous job, I worked on a first come first served basis, with negotiation for unforeseen circumstances.

I included myself in that, and everyone was aware that I would not put parents ahead of non-parents in the queue for Christmas leave (or for summer holidays, either, another time some parents think they should get first dibs).

APlaceOnTheCouch · 03/12/2015 18:45

misscarla that was the policy they had when I worked in a call centre too. I used to love working Christmas because the office was nice and quiet, and I knew I was earning much more than usual for my shift. I could also still visit DPs later on.

Nanny0gg · 03/12/2015 18:57

and people had to compromise and understand that parents liked to spend Christmas Day with their children.

Indeed they do. So your elderly mother would like to spend Christmas with both her daughters.

She really should challenge them.

Fratelli · 03/12/2015 20:33

Tbh it's probably too late to change now. She needs to put her foot down next year. For this year though could you all have a family Christmas meal etc another day? My oh and his side of the family work many Christmas days so this year we'll be having it 27th December. As long as the family gets together for a day that's the most important bit for us.

Original poster

Daisysbear · 04/12/2015 09:37

I spoke to her on the phone last night. Apparently another colleague is fuming and has drafted up an email to management which they're all going to sign, giving their point of view requesting a meeting to agree a 'fair and equal policy'

OP posts:

Birdsgottafly · 04/12/2015 10:01

As your Mum ages, your Sister can sight "Caring Responsibilities", as a reason not to work every Christmas.

My Family all work in Social Care etc jobs and I think that Christmas should only be considered to be given off if your child is between 3-7, outside of that, they can understand that you have to work.

NoSquirrels · 04/12/2015 10:11

That's just very bad management. But if I were her I would draw my line in the sand and point out that as I have indeed worked 2 Christmas Days in a row (so "considering others") I am not prepared to miss out on another Christmas Day with my OWN parents, who would like to spend the day with their children.

But I don;t mind being a bit unpopular on a point of principle. It may not be discriminatory in law, but it is shit management and needs resisting.

ginagslovechild · 04/12/2015 10:14

I work in a similar setting, we ask people to volunteer first (there is a hefty pay packet for Xmas day) and generally those without kids volunteer every year. if we don't get enough volunteers then anyone who didn't request leave is rota'd to work, rarely does anyone have to work it against their will.

Does your sister ever officially ask for it off? Perhaps she prefers it?

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