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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think my sister should stand up for herself re Christmas leave

117 replies

Daisysbear · 03/12/2015 11:07

My sister has no children and, for the third year running, is being pressured to work on Christmas Day (It's a call centre type job). She, and other child free colleagues have been told that, as compensation, they can have New Year's Day off.

My sister is not in the least interested in hitting the town on NYE. She's in her forties and would really like to spend Christmas day with extended family, including our elderly mother.

I've told her to put her foot down, as she's being treated unfairly, but she's afraid she'll come across as selfish and begrudging.
AIBU to think she's being silly and perfectly entitled to object to being expected to work Christmas Day every year simply because she'd not a mother?

OP posts:

StealthPolarBear · 03/12/2015 14:15

I suspect it isn't discrimination.
Do think it's unfair!

RoseWithoutAThorn · 03/12/2015 14:20

Your sister INBU. She really should be asking for every second Christmas off. DH had this with employees of his in October. There has to be staff in on Christmas Day and the "oh but I have children I've never had to work Christmas in any other practice" was raised. That particular employee handed her notice in. It turns out some wanted to work Christmas and some New Year anyway so they've all swapped around but we were certainly not having one person out of a team wanting every Christmas off. That's just unfair.

HesterShaw · 03/12/2015 14:28

Oh I hate this! There could be loads of reasons why someone doesn't have children, and being expected to work year after year under the assumption that they have no family to care about or for them so unfair and offensive! Everyone should take turns.

She must stand up for herself about this.

TendonQueen · 03/12/2015 14:43

Yes, she should speak up. Christmas is a holiday for all. I'm a parent and I would accept in this type of job I had to take my turn, but not to do it all the time. As a wider point, this is one of the unpleasant consequences of 24/7 culture - why does a call centre even need to be open on Christmas Day? There was some statistic around last year about the number of people who ring around to get a better deal for their house insurance or some such on Christmas Day. Even if you don't celebrate Christmas, couldn't it be agreed that on just one day, you can't make those calls because the call centre workers will be having a day off?

HunterHearstHelmsley · 03/12/2015 14:50

I manage ten people and would never do this! Everyone gets a fair crack of the whip. One of the child free women in my team lives away from family and I'd feel awful if she had to spend the Christmas period alone because someone else was deemed more important.

I tend to ask what people want then compare with the previous year.

It's not fair for the same people to cover all the time.

MrsCrimshaw · 03/12/2015 14:51

I would encourage her to speak up. If there is any chance of getting it off she should push for it. Christmas can be lonely as an adult.

My OH works for the Ambulance Service and they have this stupid system that you have to book Christmas leave for the next year from 12.01am on New Year's Eve. OH has worked last 3 Christmases and NY as someone else always gets there first with their email. To make matters worse, if you aren't on shift for Christmas and NY, you can do it as overtime and get double pay - not an option for those who have to work it anyway!

But I digress - "pressured" is not "forced" so she should say no if she can.

Enjolrass · 03/12/2015 15:14

What is happening?

Are they asking her if she would be OK working and she says that she is? Even though she doesn't really want to.

Or are they making her do it?

Original poster

Daisysbear · 03/12/2015 15:28

She, and other colleagues without children, have been told that management would like to facilitate staff with young children to be at home on Christmas Day and are therefore asking that staff without children co-operate in this by agreeing to come in on Christmas Day.

When she mentioned quietly to her immediate manager that this would be her third Christmas in a row working, she was 'reminded' that she would be getting New Year's Day off instead and people had to compromise and understand that parents liked to spend Christmas Day with their children.

Other colleagues in a similar position have had the same type of response, and some with children have openly been saying that it's fair and they can't understand why someone without children would be 'mean enough' to refuse to cover Christmas day.

It seems to be low level emotional pressure and blackmail as opposed to an outright edict.

OP posts:

squoosh · 03/12/2015 15:34

She and the other child-free colleagues need to get together and present a united front. If she's too afraid to push it herself she needs to be vocal in a group.

Being expected to work Christmas day for three consecutive years is bullshit.

squoosh · 03/12/2015 15:35

Why the feck is the employer showing more consideration for people who don't even work for him (the colleagues' children) than his own employees?

originalusernamefail · 03/12/2015 15:50

I'm an ICU nurse so Xmas day is just a normal working day for me, I also have children. I don't think I should take priority over a childless person, everyone is someone's baby! If you work in a sector that requires Xmas cover the only fair way is for everyone to take their turn. I have worked 8 of the last Xmas days, the only ones I've had off are due to maternity leave. Your DSis needs to stand up for herself, are your parents elderly? They may not have many Xmas days left to spend together?

acatcalledjohn · 03/12/2015 15:51

So once you are an adult you stop being someone's child and forfeit the right to spend Christmas with elderly/frail relatives, especially parents?

I would throw the emotional blackmail straight back at them. The argument from your DSis's manager is shocking. Also complain (in writing) that she is guilt tripped in to working by those with children). And if they don't comply,

FWIW: When it looked like my DGDad wouldn't make it to the following Christmas, I asked for the time off to spend two weeks at home during the full Christmas/New Year period. My colleagues understood and accommodated my request. But in the past I have worked Christmas Day and simply made the most of it. Give and take.

It's amazing how this supposed season of goodwill turns some people in to selfish & grabby little arseholes.

zeetea · 03/12/2015 16:02

Third year in a row! People without children still have loved ones they want to see on Christmas Day, and like hell is New Years the same - stick that back at them - 'oh but you get to spend New Years with your children, YAY!'

All that emotional bullying is bullshit, there's no compromise here, everyone works in the same company so take turns whether you have kids or not! And if they're horrible about it she can tell them how sad your family has been the last two Christmasses without her - your sister is a child to your mother, and she desperately wants to see her daughter this year at Christmas.

acatcalledjohn I agree - every year I actually find myself more and more stressed with what everyone else is doing/saying/wanting/expecting etc etc. Season of joy my arse

scarlets · 03/12/2015 16:04

I agree with everyone else. So unfair!

Talk to Acas and establish if she actually has any rights here. Then, armed with knowledge, she can speak to other childless colleagues and think about presenting a united front to management. It needs to be done quickly for obvious reasons.

What type of call centre is it, out of interest? I can see why tech call centres are open at Christmas, and 999 obviously, but the pp who mentioned insurance was spot on!

SouthWesterlyWinds · 03/12/2015 16:18

I remember when I was young, my father used to work every 2 out of 3 Christmas days. He worked on a naval yard switchboard before mobiles, and bar valentines, was the busiest day of the year. There were three people in the group, so two covered with one off. Two had young family, one was a confirmed bachelor. That's the way it should work. Your sister should say something and refuse to work Christmas. Three years in a row is taking the piss.

ChestyNut · 03/12/2015 16:22

She needs to stand up for herself.
No way would I be penalised because I don't have children. If I offer, fair enough but to be black mailed as your life is less important is not on

APlaceOnTheCouch · 03/12/2015 16:26

I can't see if you've answered the poster who asked if there was an Union or if your DSIS was a member? If yes then they would be best placed to negotiate on everyone's behalf.

I understand you want to support your DSIS but if she doesn't feel able to be more assertive about this then why not host an alternative Christmas Day on a day when she can make it? It doesn't solve the work problem but it's horrible if your DSIS is going to feel she's missing out and letting family down.

Strokethefurrywall · 03/12/2015 16:43

Fuck that. I would call in "sick" on Christmas day.

fruitlovingmonkey · 03/12/2015 16:58

That's really shit. Her colleagues are horrible people. My friend had a similar situation and he ended up leaving the company over it. Some shit managers don't realise what a big deal it is to people to spend Christmas with their partner/ siblings/ parents/ grandparents/ aunts/ uncles/ friends, regardless of whether children are involved.
She should be careful mentioning her nieces/ nephews wanting to see her because that just backs up the ignorant view that Christmas is only important to children.

Whatdoidohelp · 03/12/2015 16:59

Discrimination pure and simple. Those with kids shouldn't work where xmas day is a normal working day if they aren't willing to have turns.

NotNowBono · 03/12/2015 17:02

I also dislike this tedious attitude that if you don't have children, having New Year's Day off is somehow better because - ha! ha! - you'll be out getting paralytic on New Year's Eve, won't you? WON'T YOU?

Er, no.

ThinkYouKnowMe · 03/12/2015 17:02

No it's not fair to your sister, when the parents who are insisting in having Xmas took that job on, they were told that some shifts did include working christmas, new years etc. Key shifts so to speak. Your sister needs to remind them of this, drives me crazy that parents use emotional blackmail. I used to work in the restaurant business and worked most of the key Xmas dates after having family, it was my turn to work. I wouldn't dream of saying anything like that to people who didn't have children. Appauling behaviour!

AcrossthePond55 · 03/12/2015 17:03

Where I worked (Civil Service) we were closed Xmas Day, but had the same trouble Xmas Eve. We closed at 4 pm and they usually let 1/2 of the staff off at noon (the other 1/2 got off at noon NYE).

Time off was strictly on a rotation basis if you were off Xmas Eve one year, you'd be off NYE the next. But many of the parents would squeal if they weren't on the Xmas Eve list every year, despite this being procedure established by Union contract. Once the rota was established people were free to volunteer to change places but mgmt was careful to say that no one was to actually solicit another employee to change. I'm a parent and just sucked it up every other year unless a coworker approached me. But it was amazing to see the number of people who sat around po-faced because people wouldn't switch.

Your sister and coworkers need to contact the union if they have one or research applicable laws. The employer may be in breach of employment law and need to be reminded of this.

Original poster

Daisysbear · 03/12/2015 17:06

It's an IT call centre, who deal with international clients.

She's not in a union unfortunately

OP posts:

hettie · 03/12/2015 17:12

Unless it's an NHS or emergency social service call service why the fuck is it even open on Xmas day...And yes she needs to escalate as it's discriminatory

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