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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think first come first served is bullshit

111 replies

Pantone363 · 03/12/2015 09:48

and is actually just "which parents can come up with the spare cash the quickest?"

Music lessons at school, £70, first come first served.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Scarydinosaurs · 03/12/2015 11:12

We don't do this system for this very reason. Go to governors and ask for it to be changed as school policy.

MidniteScribbler · 03/12/2015 11:13

All children should be able to receive the same opportunities. There may be times that allowances need to be made, but a child should never be excluded. It is part of the job to make sure that any planning is done with the same allowances you would need for planning any activity (ensuring the child's safety, well being and peace of mind being the key to that).

mouldycheesefan · 03/12/2015 11:14

I am talking about ski trips and other such potentially risky activities

SantasLittleMonkeyButler · 03/12/2015 11:20

I think first come first served is the fairest way for most things.

For things like residential trips, out of school activities & stuff where the staff really just need/want to take/have the well behaved children there are other ways to do it.

For example, at DS1's secondary school, pupils were given "attitude to learning" levels by subject teachers at regular intervals. These were between 1 and 6. A level 1 meant that the pupil had been very well behaved & involved with a class. A level 6 meant the pupil had been removed or cause a major disruption. It had nothing to do with attainment, a lower achiever with a good attitude to learning could still get a 1. Certain activities or privileges were then only open to pupils averaging a Level 3 Attitude To Learning or above. The main one being the school ski trip.

tbtc20 · 03/12/2015 11:30

mouldy risky is a different matter to just not wanting to take the badly behaved kids. If there are genuine reasons why a child is not eligible to go on a trip or take part in an activity then that's an entirely different situation to what you were implying (I believe).

ArcheryAnnie · 03/12/2015 11:34

tbtc I've been on a school trip as a parent helper where a very, very challenging child was included. Her one-to-one TA announced halfway through the trip that she'd forgotten an appointment, and buggered off. The kid melted down (in an unsafe location), the teacher had to put her in a full-body hold while simultaneously trying to ring the head to order a cab to take her and challenging child back to school, and me and another parent were left to manage the rest of the class while things got sorted out.

There's no doubt that trips were really important to this small girl, and I don't begrudge her them, but the effect on the rest of the class in terms of education, enjoyment and safety was often huge. I would not judge a school that decided not to take this girl on every trip.

mouldycheesefan · 03/12/2015 11:34

I am not implying, I am telling you that teachers deliberately exclude badly behaved children from some extra curricular activities, skiing being a prime example, by using the 'hat' method. All my teacher friends do it! I can't see anything wrong with it, wpuld you take a naughty child up a mountain or in a residential where you are going to have to deal with that beahviour 24 hours a day? No!

ArcheryAnnie · 03/12/2015 11:37

On the OP's question: YANBU. First come, first served rewarded SAHPs as if they were the ones collecting the kids at the school gate, forms got signed and handed in then and there, leaving working parents (who would pick up kids from the afterschool club later, when the school office was already closed) in the dust. Nothing fair about it.

mouldycheesefan · 03/12/2015 11:38

And those from chaotic families are not going to even get their forms in

Samcro · 03/12/2015 11:40

ArcheryAnnie what happened there sounds like the fault of the TA and I do hope the child was not discriminated against in future.

legohurtswhenyoustandonit · 03/12/2015 11:40

I agree ArcheryAnnie. I've found this a few times at my DCs' school

legohurtswhenyoustandonit · 03/12/2015 11:42

Sorry, I should have said I agree with the comment timed 11.37.

tbtc20 · 03/12/2015 11:43

mouldy Are you talking about a naughty child or a child at risk? Make your mind up.

Archer It sounds like the trip broke down, which is very unfortunate.
There is a massive difference between a school (not just some teacher) making an informed choice that a particular child should not attend a trip because of their additional needs, and some naughty child just being removed from the hat. MASSIVE difference.

I would really like to hear from some teachers because frankly mouldy I think you are making a harsh blanket statement.

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 03/12/2015 11:45

Archery - DS's school class anything handed in the afternoon a letter goes home as handed in the following morning.

pigsinmud · 03/12/2015 11:51

I'm not keen on first come first served. At ds2's school it is the magical hat. However, it is not the same names each time, so it seems to be fair.

Also, for fun trips, rather than educational ones, they have to achieve certain targets ... homework up to date, no outstanding detentions, good attendance etc.. As santa said, it is not to do with achievement, but attitude and behaviour.

mouldycheesefan · 03/12/2015 11:51

Naughty child. I never said child at risk I said risky activities such as skiing.

'Make up your mind' how rude! Let's hope teachers do not select using parental manners as a criteria!

MidniteScribbler · 03/12/2015 11:53

Mouldy, you CANNOT exclude a child with special needs from a trip just because they have special needs. They have the same right to access the curriculum and extra-curricular activities as every other students, and schools have a responsibility to facilitate that. There may have been times when a child does not attend a trip, but it is usually because of many meetings with the parents in advance, and because it is generally parent requested (I had one child not attend a trip due to religious reasons, and another because the parent was concerned due to their needs that they wouldn't cope with it, despite us making all efforts to plan so the child could attend). Before a child doesn't attend any event, there are many discussions that go on behind the scenes that anyone who is not the parent or guardian of the child would have absolutely no idea about.

mouldycheesefan · 03/12/2015 11:55

Midnight i did not say special needs. I said badly behaved children. Who of course can be excluded from trips whether by any of the systems already described in this thread or via a random hat.

tbtc20 · 03/12/2015 11:56

mouldy Why could a teacher not take a naughty child on a risky activity? Either they are being excluded for a reason, in which case the parents (and child) should be informed of the reasons, or (as I do think you were implying) your teacher friends simply choose not to take naughty children.

If that was not your implication then you should have been more clear.

Anyway, we're arguing about semantics now.

You assume I am parent I see.

mouldycheesefan · 03/12/2015 12:00

Yes teacher friends choose not to take naughty children. I have said it five times now. How can I be more clear. For the sixth time, they pretend to draw names from a hat in order to exclude naughty children where there are limited places in a trip, particularly risky trips, because they do not want to take them.

What part do you not understand?

Samcro · 03/12/2015 12:01

discrimination

MidniteScribbler · 03/12/2015 12:03

And yet, in all my years of teaching, I've never seen that happen mouldy. Maybe I'm just keeping better company than you?

EvaTheOptimist · 03/12/2015 12:04

I am really impressed that at the OP's school musical instrument lessons are over-subscribed. My DD is the ONLY child learning her instrument at her primary school. What do these schools do that drums up all this interest? Genuinely interested because I would LOVE there to be more of a music scene at her school!

mouldycheesefan · 03/12/2015 12:06

Maybe midnight! I see nothing wrong with it personally! I have nine friends who are teachers they all use the hat ;-) on oversubscribed trips

ComposHatComesBack · 03/12/2015 12:08

Of course picking names from a hat is fair. It's random

If the experience of school trips at my old school is anything to go by, the draw wasn't as random as you may think. As 6th formers we were pressganged into performing the draw in front of all those interested in German trip for the third years.

We took turns picking the names on folded up bits of paper. Except the names of the kids that the teachers didn't want up on the trip were folded up four times, rather than two and we were given strict instructions not pick out the four folded papers.

I can't say I blame the teachers, given that they were giving up their holiday to look after children 24/7 with no thanks, I can understand why they wouldn't want to make a hard job impossible by taking all the tearaways with them.