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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

In thinking there has been a massive cover up in the death of little Poppi Worthington ?? [Upsetting content warning added by MNHQ]

121 replies

BreadAndOliveOil · 28/11/2015 23:54

I've namechanged for this as i'm local to the town this baby is from.

I cannot believe the huge fuck ups that have occured in investigating this childs death, this child had broken bones and other injuries indicating a serious sexual assault......no clear way of knowing as all evidence had been destroyed by the time police decided to investigate 9 months later. I cannot believe how little this has been reported in the media now the case is coming to court.

To top it all, nobody is being prosecuted for this babies death, not for the injuries sustained. She's dead, that's it. How can this be ?? I don't understand how this is able to happen ??!

I've linked one of the least, distressing articles. This really is one of the most upsetting cases i've heard of. I cannot believe that someone is in all probability getting away with the murder of this little girl. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/child-protection/12019722/Poppi-Worthington-Toddler-could-have-been-sexually-assaulted-before-unexplained-death-hearing-told.html

OP posts:
Andthentherewasmum · 19/01/2016 18:12

Is there petition that we can all get behind to keep the pressure up on this?

This is a serious failing in our legal system in the protection of children. I can't think of a better cause for Mumsnet to get behind.

Poppy should have her day in court. Flowers

Bungleboggs · 20/01/2016 14:51

I wonder how her father will explain his actions to her Twin when he's older. Poor little darling x

WilLiAmHerschel · 20/01/2016 14:58

Bungle I hope he doesn't get to go near her twin or any other child. I kept crying yesterday thinking of that poor little girl. I don't understand how anyone with a heart can be involved in a case like this and just mess it up so horrifically.

I agree with Leanne, this is a perfect example of why open justice is necessary.

Hillingdon · 20/01/2016 15:15

Does the father have access to the twin? Something seems very very wrong here. What sort of person attacks a small child. The house seemed over crowded and children everywhere yet no one heard anything....

GruntledOne · 20/01/2016 15:29

No, Hillingdon, the whole point of this hearing was to decide on child protection issues for the other children. Since the judge found the father was responsible he doesn't get access.

Anotherusername1 · 20/01/2016 15:31

the parents won't face charges yet the judgement released today, which apportions responsibility firmly at the feet of the father, appears to be based on the same evidence the CPS would have been presented with when deciding not to prosecute.

probably because of the differing standards of proof - family courts: balance of probabilities and criminal courts: beyond reasonable doubt. So the family courts can decide he did it, but the CPS may have decided that the evidence wouldn't' be sufficient in a criminal trial.

GruntledOne · 20/01/2016 15:31

Gentle moan here about the tendency to leap to ask for petitions about court issues. The legal system just doesn't work that way and, if you think about it, it just can't. You can't have massively important issues about justice decided on the basis that a load of strangers have read a bit about the case on the internet and clicked on a petition.

Hillingdon · 20/01/2016 16:27

Am I the only one thinking that this man will claim his human rights have been dismissed etc and he has every right to see his children etc etc.

Having said that now that he has been named his life wont be worth living whether he is guility or not.

Tamponlady · 20/01/2016 16:40

TwllBach Sun 29-Nov-15 07:02:19
I'm a teacher and can well believe that something like this has happened. Social services and the police (in my very uneducated, uninfluential opinion) are absolutely shocking and (again in my experience) really just couldn't give a shit. Don't seem to follow any sort of procedure, yet hide behind it if questioned, don't share information across agencies as promised after Victoria Klimbie (sp) and generally disregard evidence and statements actually from the child. I'm not surprised, unfortunately, that there are things happening that we don't care about because they are disgusting, in my opinion. I regularly despair against the whole system because, in my experience, it is not there to help the child, just cover up as much as possible.

this I think it's most likely incompance that a cover up tbh I was a foster carer for years and worked with a lot of sw

They often don't know there arse from there elbow

missemk · 21/01/2016 12:58

This case is absolutely heartbreaking. My child was taken from my property by a paedophile ring in the same block of flats as I slept with my newborn baby. She was found later the same night by her father terrified and shaken up in our hallway. When she began displaying disturbing behaviour and told us what happened police were called. NO PHYSICAL EXAMINATION OFFERED NO FORENSIC OF CRIME SCENE (she named the men involved who were known to the family and police. As a result no arrests and these men are still free. MASSIVE FAILURES AGAIN!!!
Too many children abused and rarely any justice!! Who are they trying to protect?!! SCUM.
R.i.p Poppi my heart breaks for you. I hope someone is held accountable for your murder. NOMORE COVER UPS. I was lucky I got my child back. Sleep Tight Sweetheart xxx

Andthentherewasmum · 21/01/2016 14:30

Gruntledone I gently disagree.

Social change is brought about by the majority speaking out and creating precedence not blindly adhering to constitution. If this wasn't the case then oppression of homosexuality, the illegality of wars and racial abuse would never have been questioned. It all starts with a trickle.

In this case the ineptitude of the police cannot keep being used as an excuse for allowing cases to not be properly investigated and tried. You'll note I didn't say he was guilty I said that this case should have its day in court following an effective investigation.

Although I hear on the news a new inquiry is going to take place which is a positive step.

GoringBit · 21/01/2016 19:12

And now it's being reported that the abusing cunt so-called father has fled the country. Angry

WilLiAmHerschel · 21/01/2016 19:17

missemk, Shock I can't imagine how terrible that must have been for your family. I hope your daughter is OK now.

Goring, I'm not surprised to hear that. Now he's free to do it again to another child. Sad

GoringBit · 21/01/2016 19:38

And don't you just know that he will, WilLiAmHerschel... what an utter clusterfuck of a situation. SadAngry

mimishimmi · 21/01/2016 23:11

I was abused at the age of 8 by the son of a man who, it turned out, was a notorious pedophile and was 'protected'. When their reputation became known, they would just move. I see some dodgy looking men around and I am just so careful with my kids. The very scary thing is it's this type that are doing so well from security contracts related to GWOT etc. I think a lot of our demographic problems are related to these monsters being let loose on us..

GruntledOne · 22/01/2016 10:33

Andthentherewasmum, I have no problems with petitions to bring about social change. I do have a problem with a petition about one single case. Of necessity, few if any of the people signing the petition would have knowledge of anything other than what they have read in pretty brief newspaper reports: they won't have access to all the available information that the charging authorities have. If the evidence isn't there and can't be found because too much time has gone by, what would a trial achieve other than to cost a great deal of money before this man goes free again? If you allow all charging decisions to be made by petition, it would lead to witchhunts of innocent people.

That is obviously not to say that what happened in this and, for instance, the Janner case should be forgotten about. It clearly is appropriate to carry out a new inquiry to try to see if in fact there is adequate evidence to justify a charge, but it remains the fact that that decision can't be made by reference to a public petition. I also think it is absolutely essential that there should be a full investigation of what on earth went on with the police and why they didn't do their jobs at the time.

JoffreyBaratheon · 22/01/2016 12:02

An ex teacher here and my experience of social workers was shocking. (Never turning up to interviews when the school had paid for cover for me to free me up, barely knowing the child in question's name, etc etc). I had hoped things had improved over the years since I left teaching or that my appalling experience of them was peculiar to that particular city...

Over 2 years ago we got new neighbours who, it turns out, are known to the police, SS, you name it - and we have had to contact the SS, NSPCC, and had the police contact us re. the way they treat their kids and whether we'd give evidence in court if it came to it.... Months later and these kids (one a toddler, one aged about 5) are still in the sole care and at the mercy of these two violent, abusive and frankly, creepy people. Once we even saw the police take the man away at 1 AM but leave the kids alone in the care of the (drunken) woman. It makes no sense.

I think that SS have learned nothing from the high profile cases of the past. If it's a case of money and resources well you'd still prioritise and get these two kids away from a pair of violent, abusive drunks, surely?

The piece de resistance came a few weeks back when I watched the woman throw their elderly, cancer ridden dog to the concrete drive, the man kick it, and the younger child stand impassively and watch as if it was a boring TV programme. Which made me wonder what else she has witnessed, if that was so mundane to her. RSPCA inspector told me there is often a correlation between child abuse and animal abuse. So other agencies come into contact with these people, too and are unable to act (we were told they could only pursue the case if I'd filmed it on my phone or two independent lots of neighbours had seen it). I think that's insane. I'd happily sand up in court and give evidence if it meant those kids were got to safety - why is my word lesser than the abusers'? (When confronted, they predictably denied everything but then quickly had the dog PTS due to the cancer they hadn't bothered about til a card from the RSPCA came through their door).

SS send someone out briefly, then sign them off. We have seen this continually over two years. My kids have to listen to this toddler and Reception aged kids being called - all the worst words you can imagine - and we can't do a thing about it.

Some abusers can be credible. Next door, the man is cogent (but the woman makes Bez look like Mary Berry). He seems to do the talking when they're in trouble and he must be convincing.

Family Courts don't often make a no direct contact order - I was told it was in less than 1% of cases. It's a bit like the OJ Simpson case - the civil case following being cleared in court. Hopefully, this person is now waiting for the knock on the door. Abusive men are often teflon.

In these cases people always say 'Where were the neighbours? Why didn't they complain to the authorities?" Truth is we're complaining ourselves blue in the face and no-one who has the power to act, is acting. The police need enough evidence to persuade the CPS and the SS would rather sign these people off, even if they're made aware of them, than add to their caseloads. The occasional child death is probably collateral damage, to them.

Re my neighbours I have left a paper (well email) trail a mile wide so if anything does happen, I will scream from the rooftops that we tried our best to get those kids help and get the authorities to get them out of there. As have other neighbours.

NewIdeasToday · 14/06/2016 06:38

JUNE 2016 UPDATE

Very sad report in today's Guardian that confirms that the OP and others on this thread were right about the lack of concern and action for Poppi. Particularly shocking to read that proper care wasn't taken to protect Poppi's siblings even after she died so sadly.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/13/poppi-worthington-death-case-review-past-abuse-in-family-overlooked

foxykins · 14/06/2016 07:20

Interesting information about the 'multi generational care' and 'sexual abuse / exploitation' of the mother

Another article says the mother was sexually abused both by a relative and by an 'older couple ' as a teenager and that this made her 'at risk' from older men or men in general. Never seen this referred to before in a child
Protection case

On a side note, I wish more guidance or something could be done to stop people leaving the care system, or from troubled backgrounds, blindly producing one baby after another.

That alone leads to so many problems eg as poppi family 7 children in a 3 bed house, who can cope with 7 children under 10 anyway I mean even super nanny couldn't or a competent mother and an au pair would struggle !

foxykins · 15/06/2016 17:03

Bump

MollyGreen · 03/03/2017 10:39

I know this is an old post however there has been an update from the police today admitting they failed Poppi .

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-39139893

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