...to think these girls aren't 'strong-willed', they're just a nightmare?

[Jhm9rhs]

In my DS' year (Y1) there is a core of 3-4 girls who are 'the popular girls'. Frankly, I thank my lucky stars that I have sons, because they don't really notice these girls. But they do have lots of little girl friends and I hear endless tales of this little clique...the girls themselves desperate to belong, and their mothers telling stories of bullying, manipulation, exclusion, bribery etc.

Tonight I have been shocked to witness an almost self-congratulatory thread on FB between three of these girls' mothers, joking about how hard it is to parent 'naturally strong-willed and feisty' girls, but really full of pride about what one called 'their alpha girls'.

I wanted to step in and say 'actually, they aren't strong-willed, they're incredibly spoilt and entitled and could do with a few lessons on kindness'. Naturally I didn't.

Then I started to wonder if, in fact, these women are well aware of how mean their children can be, but are so relieved they're not being bullied that they just ignore it

AIBU? Are some kids just born like this?

[amarmai]

merry i am gasping at the nastiness dealt to your son. SO sorry this happened . How did you help him get past it?

[Unreasonablebetty]

I actually agree with OP, I am a mum of a girl, in her class there were 3 girls who were all very tight and generally acted like little bitches from year 1 onwards, they're now year 3s, they aren't friends any more and singularly they are nice girls.

[tobysmum77]

Toby, boys can be just as bad

I'm sure they can, but in the class I'm on about its the girls who are the issue.

[MerryMarigold]

Amarmai, we're not over it yet and he is in Y5! It was all messy and confusing as there were some issues over whether he had any SEN (he has some mild), he was struggling with not a very good teacher, struggling academically and dealing with all that. It was hard to know what was what and what was going on as he was very uncommunicative. Some of the stuff I know now has come out over the years since. I kept trying to keep up his self esteem at home by many many means and spent around 1.5 hours a day in the evening 1:1 with him (me or dh) talking about the day or just playing, helping him wind down and talk if he wanted to.

After Y1 they mixed classes and that is when he really started to heal but it's had a lasting effect on his self esteem.

[Scaredycat3000]

FFS Nursery have just put up their lovely weekly FB post, what we did this week including how lovely they all have been. Within seconds the Mum of a girl has posted I'm sorry I find it hard to believe that hilary let anyone else occupy the new equipment lol x. WTF is wrong with people?!

Details have been changed to protect the innocent.

[Sonnet]

Disclaimer - I have not read all the thread.

OP - to me the issue here is the mothers and their conversations/posts on Facebook. Not really the poor DCs fault at all! Their mothers should be teaching them inclusion kindness and empathy.

[Sonnet]

Scardeycat - I assume it was Hilary's mother who put that! ... Exactly what I mean by my post above...

[Enasharpleshairnet]

"Self-directed" was the way the parent of the most selfish child in my child's class proudly described their kid: that was the day I gave up being patient and understanding. (They had reached 9 years old too.)

[Scaredycat3000]

Sorry, yes, 'Hilary's' Mum put the comment.
Yes En we have had to tell our DS's that they are allowed to use self defense after years attacks from a female family member. She is allowed to get away with it.

[IguanaTail]

Those parents calling their girls "alpha" is horrible - as a pp said, that implies that everyone else is "beta". There is a massive difference between trying to encourage your child to be confident and celebrating "alpha" behaviour. It strikes me that they are probably quite concerned about it, but are unsure how to tackle it, and it is therefore easier for them all to bond and laugh about their daughters behaving like this. At that age, they are quite the reflection of their parents, so although they might not be very likeable, this will be due to the parenting in my opinion.

[IguanaTail]

In my experience of boys, their behaviour can be similarly nasty, but they don't tend to have the same intense cliques or hold a grudge in the same way.

I remember being in year 1 and there was a horrible girl in my class called Clare. She did nasty things to others and told lies all the time. It is possible to be aged 5 and be not very nice.

[KERALA1]

They need to watch it though - consistent meanness often eventually leads to social rejection. This happened in dd yr2 class. A dominant bright child was a leader but has been so consistently unpleasant she is now socially isolated. Dd was a friend but decided months ago that this child was mean so was now her enemy. The others in the group (boys) feel the same. None of the other girls will play with her either. So actually celebrating "alpha" behaviour in your child is not only negative for everyone else but could lead to some lonely playtimes for their little alphas. Kids aren't stupid.

[Stanky]

Merry, I really felt for your little boy. I was bullied myself from the earliest days in reception. I remember having to share a table with about 3 other girls, and we all had to put our books into the middle of the table at the end of the day. One girl looked at me like dirt as usual, and said "You put your book on last." I did as she said, and then said "Oh look, now my book is on top." Well, that pissed her off, and she grabbed my book and shoved it to the bottom of the pile, where it belonged. Like me. Those girls didn't change all through school. They found ways to remind me of my place every day.

My ds is in reception now, and he has SEN. He has weak core muscles, and has no sensation for knowing when to go to the toilet. He still has to wear pull ups to school. The teachers are very supportive, and the other children seem nice, but I worry about the future. Especially as ds might not even recognise if the other children are making fun of him. I'll just have to cross that bridge if/when I come to it. :(

[notmaryberry]

Stanky I remember how worried I was when my oldest DD with SEN started school. Generally the children were lovely for the first few years but then she was pretty much excluded by all the girls from year 3 to 6 (not bullied but just ignored basically). Luckily she was fairly unaware and thought they were all her friends. She's in year 8 now and has made many more friends in secondary school and all the 'alpha' girls ignore her still which is fine with me as she doesn't get involved in the silly arguments and doesn't get bullied.
My youngest DD is one of those 'strong willed' girls and I try my best to keep her behaviour nice but there are times I am disappointed with how she has treated someone (and I let her know it). She is popular and knows it! I would always try and stop her being cruel but she really has her own mind and it is hard sometimes to stop her being selfish (she's year3). I've definitely seen it from both sides.

[IoraRua]

Anti female. What a load of shit. It's not anti female to note that in OPs case, it's girls that are causing problems. That does not mean it's every girl, everywhere - but just these particular ones.

What would be anti female would be if we all adopted the view that girls are unique precious snowflakes and can do no wrong - it's patronising. At that age they're only very little still, and it sounds like it's the mothers at fault but they do need to be pulled up on bad behaviour and taught the correct thing to do. That goes for boys as much as it does for girls.

[Stanky]

notmaryberry, glad your dd has some nice friends. I suppose the difference between you and the mothers in the op, is that you really have experienced it from both sides, recognise it and you're not encouraging the 'strong willed' behaviour.

I've witnessed my own friend's dds ganging up on my ds, and I had to step in and have a word with the girls, because their own mother wouldn't say anything to them. They did stop once I had a word with them about being kind etc, but if I hadn't, then it would have carried on, seemingly with their mother's approval.

[MerryMarigold]

Stanky, I have discovered that different classes can be so different just depending on the kids in them, so hopefully you got a 'nice' class for your ds. I am glad it's working out ok for now. Seriously, my dd's class was lovely and she would have had no problems had she been ds1.

I often wonder how different he'd be if it would have been different circumstances in his first couple of years. I think he'd have these tendencies anyway, so I guess anything could have set him off, whether it was bullying then, or later. He has been ok since, but the SEN doesn't help his confidence, which I think can just make you more of a target. Just keep an eye and hopefully if his only problem is the muscle one, he will be ok.

My ds2 is the opposite end of the extreme. Talented (sports, acting, academics, you name it), cocky and popular. He is also kind, though and appreciates kindness in others, even when they are not like him.