To feel slightly put out at the implication that IVF babies are more precious?

[jollyfrenchy]

As part of a discussion about choking and cutting grapes for small children, one lady said she also wouldn't be giving her daughter raw apple or carrot pieces until she was 5 years old for fear of choking. When she was then told she was being a bit overly paranoid. In response she agreed, but explained it by saying that it took 11 years of trying and 2 rounds of IVF to have her daughter, and she wasn't willing to take any risks at all.

Now, I do understand that sort of experience has an effect on you, but I slightly resent the implication that her child is somehow more precious than others. Kind of like, "Oh well you can afford to take risks, you've got three kids, and anyway, you if you lost one you could always have another. This is the only one I've got and will ever have so I need to look after her more."

Er, no every one of my children is as precious and important as yours, it's just that in life you have to take risks and eating apples is a risk I'm prepared for them to take.

Also surely it's not beneficial to your oh so precious child's well being to wrap them in cotton wool and never take ANY risk with them. In a similar way I know people who had a hard time having their baby or who adopted after years of heartache, who then go on to completely spoil the child (never say no, let them have their own way all the time etc) because they're so grateful to have them. Again, not doing the child any favours really.

libraries I envy you your naiveté. Really I do.

Ok I lied...it's actually Chardonnay

It's helping then Mistress.

I had three miscarriages between DS1 and DS2, all before the 12 week scan. Obviously this made me paranoid for the first 12 weeks with DS2 - but it also made me paranoid about the risk of stillbirth, not because there was any sort of increased risk, but just because all the risks around pregnancy became so much more real to me. And as a PP said, it continued for a while after, with the fear that he wouldn't be breathing every time I went into him. It's a statement about anxiety, not a judgment of worth.

When my 10yr old ds2 was 18mths, he choked on half a grape. At that point I did cut but just across the centre. I hadn't yet learned to cut lengthways. Anyway, he turned blue/grey and I thought I'd lost him. I ran next door to our neighbour who was a retired gp and he held him calmly and got it out. DS started breathing immediately but was still somewhat blue and floppy when the ambulance arrived. In the hospital, the paed told us that he actually saw more older children coming in with serious choking incidents because after 5, parents tend not to bother cutting grapes etc and that until about 14, kids 'wolf' down their food without thinking and often without chewing properly. This leads to choking. He told me to always cut grapes lengthways, also to always cut cherry tomatoes and sausages. He had seen the fatal choking of an older child due to half a chipolata.

So, 'wow' all you like. I have 4 but I'd still rather not lose one needlessly because I'd assumed they were too old for me to cut their grapes.

It is about attitude to risk not how precious children are. If you hear (just as example) that one in ten thousand children will react to a medicine then most people think 'that is a very low risk, I won't worry' but if you have a child who was that one in ten thousand then you will have a completely different attitude even if the risk to your next child was still one in ten thousand.

took me 18mths to conceive my first I concur it felt like forever...then 8-9 months later after the birth of number 1 breast-feeding then number 2 came along..should I feel guilty?...does that mean I can empathize with another woman? I have been told I am a laid back parent..but psycho on weekends

I not going to respond to you again Manor. But don't presume to know anything about me or my family or my friends. I am not naive. Fuck, my friends two year old dropped dead. I am well aware how fragile life is.

htb every little helps

I know what I meant, even if I didn't express myself well. I'm sorry for anyone's losses, certainly didn't mean to offend anyone.

OP, you shouldn't have started this thread, and I think you probably know that. This is too much for me, and nice though MN has been, I don't think it's the place for me.

WannaBe
There is indeed a link between IVF and PND, but it is quite complex.

I am over simplifying it, but it is in part because there is a much higher incidence of PND among twin and multiple births, and around 10% of IVF births are twins or multiples (compared to 1% of natural conceptions). So that explains away some of it.

IVF mums are also much less likely to have a bit of a moan about life with a baby, because they feel guilty about complaining about something they have wanted for so long in case it makes them ungrateful.
So they bottle up these feelings and put on a brave face to the world, at the point that others would be asking for help.

They also report much greater anxiety levels during pregnancy and around the birth, which carry on post-partum.

Because of this, maternity services do generally recognise 'precious baby syndrome' and offer additional services. This can be giving mums with a history of MCs or infertility additional reassurance scans, or accepting their request for a C-section if they have anxiety over potential birth complications.
It isn't hospitals saying ivf babies are more precious. It is saying that there is a clear and proven link between a mother's perception of how hard it was to get or stay pregnant, the anxiety she will feel during pregnancy, and the potential for PND and/or anxiety PP.

Libraries you name alone makes me warm to you...so many books loved ..so many fines unpaid...so many books stolen = (borrowed for a really really long time) please accept a from me and if not I can always punch you in the face if you prefer...or a ?

Stampy don't leave x maybe the thread but not the site

Why thank you Mistress. I will take the tea.

Stampy, don't leave based on this thread. People can only take from your post what you type, and you did call people fucking idiots!

Perhaps don't be so aggressive in future and you have a better experience.

This thread is pretty mild in the grand scheme of things.

No baby is more precious than another, because of they way in which they are conceived! And an only child is NO MORE precious than a child that has siblings. What a bizarre view!

I was an accidental baby. After I was born, my parents suffered lots of miscarriages and even had live births that didn't survive. After many years they had a successful pregnancy with my Sibling. I don't think they realised, that they really shouldn't have recounted this story throughout my childhood. It made me feel that they loved my sibling more. It was horrible.

I have a friend who tried for 10 months to have a baby (not that long really), and ever since this girl has been born, she has spoken of nothing else. The girl is now 17 and I just can't socialise with this friend anymore, as she STILL has no other topic of conversation. It can range from How well she is doing at school. How she has a lovely figure. How she's great at drama. How she is so fabulous at A/B/C/D. It's exhausting. If you bring up another topic, she will twist it to suit elbowing her DD in to the conversation. STFU !! I don't care! Oh and all her FB posts are about her DD. Even her photo is her with DD. JUST SHUT UP.

Leave her to it and don't be upset by it! I know what 3 years of trying, 2 ectopics and 2 miscarriages feels like. I can't imagine what 11 years does. I expect she is extremely anxious about things going wrong.

ILive
I don't really understand your post.

You open by saying of course no one would think that one child should be considered more special than the other based on how long it was taken to conceive, then immediately tell us that is the exact view your parents had.

It might not be a view you agree with, based on your childhood experience, but it is very much a view that some people, including your parents, have. You might not understand why people have that view, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist

You also sound quite jealous of your friend. Who criticises someone for having a FB photo that is them with their DC?

It isn't about the baby, its purely about the mother. You're choosing to read it as a judgment on you for not cutting up grapes for your child, the other child's mum is feeling silly for cutting up grapes when she thinks her child is too old for it and trying to explain her anxiety.

I hear you but I'd aim to cut anybody who said something like that a lot of slack becaue I haven't experienced infertility.

She didn't say it didn't exist spare just that she doesn't agree with it.
Am sure she'll be back to explain but her post is pretty clear.

People who do nothing but focus on their kids, and live vicariously through their kids, to the exclusion of all else ARE GENERALLY very boring!

If that woman had said that to me I would have beaten her head off. Firstly, Just because i didn't have problems with fertility ( at the moment) does not mean I don't have stream love for my child. for them to imply that I would love them less is beyond disrespectful. The love I have for my little girls is beyond anything on this planet. I would offer my lifer for her. I have sat down on occasions and thought of scenarios and what I would do if things where to go wrong and I must admit that I can't see my self going on with life without her. That is how much I love my child who was not a result of IVF or after constant miscarriages.

I want the best for my child too but The lady op has mentioned should be scared of every food her child eats unless it has been liquidised. Even a banana can chock you or meat. She could trip on the door steps, down the stairs after missing just one step, trip while putting on a pair of trouser or nickers, trip over stone, eliminate every chemical in her house because it may cause cancer, drunk drivers, strangers on streets, or terror attack.

If it's only food she is worried about then i don't think she loves her child that much based on her judgement.

LMAO Beach you are not alone..irritating as hell...

Convo: So anyway now they are picking up the rubbish every 2 weeks!! what do you think? I was..

Oh yeah my daughter drama every 2 weeks...

What Blaeberry said. My ds is more precious to me because he's mine, not because of what I went through to conceive him. Surely everyone thinks their own child is more precious than everybody else's? However my approach to risk is unlike most other people's based on my own experience. I will happily see my ds swinging upside down on a climbing frame (ok, I'm a little nervous), but nervously watch him like a hawk when he's eating grapes or apple. That's because he nearly choked to death when he was 3. I was a useless wreck when it happened so thank my lucky stars that my clear thinking sister was around at the time.