To feel slightly put out at the implication that IVF babies are more precious?

[jollyfrenchy]

As part of a discussion about choking and cutting grapes for small children, one lady said she also wouldn't be giving her daughter raw apple or carrot pieces until she was 5 years old for fear of choking. When she was then told she was being a bit overly paranoid. In response she agreed, but explained it by saying that it took 11 years of trying and 2 rounds of IVF to have her daughter, and she wasn't willing to take any risks at all.

Now, I do understand that sort of experience has an effect on you, but I slightly resent the implication that her child is somehow more precious than others. Kind of like, "Oh well you can afford to take risks, you've got three kids, and anyway, you if you lost one you could always have another. This is the only one I've got and will ever have so I need to look after her more."

Er, no every one of my children is as precious and important as yours, it's just that in life you have to take risks and eating apples is a risk I'm prepared for them to take.

Also surely it's not beneficial to your oh so precious child's well being to wrap them in cotton wool and never take ANY risk with them. In a similar way I know people who had a hard time having their baby or who adopted after years of heartache, who then go on to completely spoil the child (never say no, let them have their own way all the time etc) because they're so grateful to have them. Again, not doing the child any favours really.

I think when something is hard to come by, you appreciate it more.

I have to listen to this same thing nearly every day. My sister and I are both pregnant. I had been ttc for 6 months, fell pregnant, lost the baby and then fell pregnant 4 months later. While I appreciate it's not as awful as what some people go through, including those who undergo IVF, I would hardly say it's been plain sailing. My sister was undergoing tests (gynae related but not due to difficulty conceiving) and was informed at that point she was infertile and would require IVF when she wanted to start a family. She was v. Upset as had planned on ttc soon. She was put on the waiting list and long story short, first round of IVF was successful. She has said herself she expected it to be such a difficult process and had prepared for many dissappointments but is amazed at how well it has went for them.

We are only 1 month apart and have had very similar pregnancies. I am delighted for both of us, as is she. But Nearly every day I need to listen to things about her 'miracle' baby, blessing, etc from my mum, gran, aunts, BIL...while my babygoes largely unmentioned except of course in comparison.

It pisses me off. I'm not jealous of the attention, I just fear that when both are born this miracle/normal baby thing will continue and lead differences in how they are treated

OP YANBU. Maryz, I see what you're saying, but IVF babies are not more special to their parents than those conceived naturally and perhaps even first time round, or even by mistake.

It is pretty insulting to suggest otherwise.

I am sure she is not implying her children are more precious than yours, only that her risk aversion is greater than yours.

Understandable after 11 years of trying and horrible invasive procedures.

Cut her a little slack OP

Oh get a life op. You are choosing to take offence. She feels how she feels about her child. How bitchy of you to come write a nasty post about something you have dreamt up for just a bit of drama.

its just perspective, she has no idea how she would feel with an non ivf baby but she is assigning those over protective feelings to the fight she had to get a child in the first place. I can understand that, but I definately cannot understand the IVF struggle because I was like many women able to get pregnant naturally. Have you been through something similar?

*It does not mean I love him more than dc1, but I am far more aware of how hard it is to even have a child and how lucky I am, so yes I would describe him as being more "precious" to me as he was so hard come by

Really hope you DC1 never gets an inkling of this.

YABVU OP. She never said that you don't care as much about your children because you didn't struggle to conceive them - that's what you've taken from her comment. She was just explaining to you why she is overprotective and she's got every right to feel that way after what she has been through.

For what it's worth, my DT's were conceived after 2 IVF's and yes I am very protective of them ( because you know, when you've spent years thinking you'll never have kids they really are very precious when they come along ). I would never, ever think that your children are any less precious to you, but yes that is the reason mine are so precious to me ( and your friend's child to her ).

Also, cutting grapes is just common sense. My DS at 18 months almost choked to death on a piece of apple. You bet I cut his grapes up still now even though he is 7 because once you've seen your child turn grey, and silently panicking as they are choking to death it isn't worth the risk - whether your child is IVF conceived or not.

I think when something is hard to come by, you appreciate it more.

See, I think that's the kind of simplistic statement that has the power to offend. One of my closest friends has one child from ivf after much heartache, and one conceived naturally the first month they took no precautions. The idea that she would 'appreciate' one more than the other is obviously bollocks and she'd be really fucked off if you said it.

A lot of more nuanced posts have talked about the greater awareness of how fragile and fleeting it all is, more time to contemplate the what ifs etc and I think there is a lot of truth to that. But you can't boil it down to that one sentence because it loses all real meaning.

YABU. And unpleasant. I've never had fertility issues, but I only have one DS and am too old to have another. It's really obvious to me that I panic about him more than my friends with 2+ children. If I lost him, I would no longer be a parent, that's the thing. And anyone who can't see that is a fucking idiot, quite frankly.

Is it really so hard to empathize with people with that attitude? Come on.

I very easily popped out 6 kids with no fuss or bother and even I can understand how someone would see their baby conceived through ivf as more "precious".

It might not be the healthiest attitude in the world (depending on how it presents itself), but it's totally understandable.

I don't think that cutting up apples and grapes is going to affect them/hold them back in any way really. My nan peeled and cut up my apples until I was about 12 for no reason. No her child isn't more precious than anyone else's but she is going to appreciate the chance she has been given more than say, someone who accidentally got pregnant. I don't think she meant it in this way at all, no need to overthink.

I had three miscarriages before having twin girls. Until they were about 12 months, and also after that if they were ill at all, if I had to wake them up in the morning (rather than them already being awake) I went in mentally preparing myself for what it would be like if one or both of them had died in the night. I'm not particularly risk averse and as a statistician by trade I understand relative risk a lot better than most people. Nevertheless, I have to make a conscious effort to put my past experiences behind me and reckon with the chances of my girls dying suddenly being about the same as they are for any other child.

So, yeah, I can see where the woman is coming from.

I don't think it's about their DC being more precious but more about being more anxious.

I was fairly relaxed with DD (considering she was my pfb) and I was leaving her to have a couple of hours of unsupervised contact with her paternal GP from 6mo despite the fact I'd split from my ex (he's had no contact with DD) and I wasn't at all close to them.

DS was born at 34 weeks. He had to go to SCBU and we thought we might lose him. I am far, far more over-protective with him than I ever was with DD at the same age. He is 5mo and the thought of even leaving him with DP for a couple of hours gives me palpitations.

It's not that DS is in any way more precious than DD is or was but the fact I nearly lost him and seeing how tiny and frail he was when he was born and having him hooked up to tubes and machines keeping him alive has made me a far, far, far more anxious mother. We still don't know whether there may be any long-term effects to him being so premature in terms of learning disabilities etc.

I imagine infertility is similar - you have been faced with the very real possibility that the life you want might not happen so when it then does happen you are far more anxious about doing anything which might take that life away from you. It's not because losing a DC would be any more devastating just because you nearly lost or didn't have that DC that makes you treat them as if they are more precious but it's having been part way there already. Only a very small part of the way (I am in no means suggesting infertility or having a prem baby is even close to being anything like as devastating as losing a child must be) but it's enough to make you worry about the possibility more than many parents for whom conception and birth etc were easy. If you lost a baby prior to having a rainbow baby then I imagine the reality of losing another must feel even greater.

Obviously if people act in a way which puts another DC at risk to protect their precious DC that is different (eg: there aren't enough seat belts so your child had better go without as I would never put my IVF baby at risk) but I don't think that is what is being discussed here?

If I lost him, I would no longer be a parent, that's the thing. And anyone who can't see that is a fucking idiot, quite frankly

The potential death of your ONE child does not make him more special than any ONE of my THREE children.

Anyone who can't see that is a fucking idiot!

I have read posts on mn suggesting that babies born through IVF/donor sperm/eggs are somehow more wanted/more loved/more precious because of the difficulties those parents had to go through to have them. Even down to the suggestion that those parents are better parents because those children were wanted so much, compared to those who conceived easily.

To the individual, that child is precious because of what they went through. But it isn't any more precious to the wider society.

I have also read that there is a much higher instance of PND in women who have babies through IVF, the suggestion being that by the time they reach the point of having the baby, they have an expectation of this miracle being which they will love unconditionally inspite of everything that being a new parent involves, that the difficulties they go through and the time taken to conceive build up the baby in their minds into something it's not iyswim. And that when the reality of relentless feeding/sleeping/crying hits then so does the guilt for feeling tired/drained/emotional over this little miracle being that was wanted so much.

Really Bamboo, he should never get an inkling that I love the two of them the same? Or do you mean he mustn't know that it was really hard to have his brother, so I was so relieved but happy when he came? (much of which was out of a desire to give ds1 a sibling). And of course I'm such a crap parent I would go around letting him know that
Even a child can understand that things you have to work hard for tend to be appreciated on a different level to things that come easily.

It's not about you so stop making it so. If you planned and was able to have the family you wanted then that's fantastic and I'm very pleased for you. But you can't begin to know what it's like not to have that and to deal with everything that comes with that situation.

All that woman is saying is that her child is so precious to her that she's terrified of taking the slightest risk. She's not saying that her child is more orevioys than yours in general, or that yours are to you.

Can you imagine living and thinking like that? Do you think that that's a good place to be in? Do you not have any sympathy or empathy or anything for her and her feelings?

YABU you are over thinking this and need to cut this woman some slack

No, rain that your other one is somehow more precious!
Your words, not mine.

Unrelated but relevant in Germaine Greer's arguments about transgenered females, and they are somehow more precious, worthy or better because it didn't just happen!

Utter tripe.

And no, my guess is your naturally conceived child probably wouldn't get it actually. It's not his fault that he's not percevied as being as precious to you is it.

It's really obvious to me that I panic about him more than my friends with 2+ children. If I lost him, I would no longer be a parent, that's the thing. And anyone who can't see that is a fucking idiot, quite frankly.

That is really fucking offensive. I'm with Damn.

I know someone who lost both children in separate incidents. The second did take away her whole continued experience of parenthood, and I get that that is a whole extra layer of bereavement on top of the loss of the child. But to extrapolate that they way you have is just bonkers.

Why are posters now starting to talk about one baby being more "special" than another? Neither the OP's friend nor anyone I've noticed on here has talked that way. People have been very frank about their feelings, mostly being ones of increased anxiety and fragility.

Hang on; this lady agreed that she was being paranoid and then gave reasons for why she's perhaps more paranoid than most. That's not being precious; it's having had things go wrong before and so being less of a risk-taker as a result.

Your post sounds quite unpleasant. People parent differently for a whole lot of different reasons; it's not your place to decide what the right level of risk-averseness/paranoia is. This lady might change her mind as her child grows older, or she might not. It doesn't matter - she's not hurting her child and is doing what feels right to her.

Wannabe, that's interesting. I was a much wanted miracle baby. Really I was an extension of a narcissist and their jealousy, they wanted me because others had children and they didn't want to look less than others by being infertile. This miracle baby had a Mum who thought because things were bad for her they shouldn't be easier for me.

My accident baby has a Mum who wants a better life for their children than she had.

I may be swayed by my own experience, all this precious miracle baby stuff, seems like narcissistic trumping others to me.

Again, nothing makes one child more precious than another.

I did have one woman (years ago when pregnant with dc 1) who explained an extra scan to me by saying "this is an IVF baby so if something happened I couldn't just go and have more like you could"

Yes, I see her point too - although she worded it badly.

To be honest, this idea that all the children you give birth too will live to old age is very very recent in human history. Until even 100 years ago you made sure you had as many children as you could because there was a pretty high chance you'd lose a few along the way.

When long life (or indeed any life at all) is called into doubt, I think it makes people a lot more pragmatic.

All DCs are precious, but some are more precious than others. Perhaps you should cultivate gratitude that you haven't had the life experiences that give others this insight?