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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To pull my elderly Nan up on her racism?

125 replies

BlueBananas · 18/11/2015 15:40

My Nan is 86, shes quite naive and has led a fairly sheltered life
I've just spent a few painful hours with her over lunch where she made a few very uninformed racist comments

I pulled her up and corrected her each time but was told by others at the table to leave it alone
She isn't nasty about it and I don't think she even realises some of the things she says are offensive, but they are and most things are just totally not true
But everybody seems to just nod and smile and roll their eyes at her while I just can't

Obviously she's old and set in her ways and doesn't even listen to me most of the time so there isn't much point which is why people tell me not to bother, but AIBU to carry on banging my head against a brick wall regardless?

OP posts:
limitedperiodonly · 19/11/2015 12:30

seriouslyffs I say that because OP said that her gran is 'sheltered' and 'naive' and not nasty.

If she was saying things in front of children I'd probably say something like: 'Oh, come on, Nan!' Once children get to about nine, perhaps even younger, most of them are capable of working out that though we love people, sometimes they say stupid things.

I put sheltered and naive in inverted commas because I found that description quite insulting and ignorant - though maybe it's true in her gran's case, she knows her better than me.

My mum would have been 92 if she had lived and was far from sheltered and naive. She held liberal social and political views and had friends of different creeds, colours and sexual orientation. Yay, my mum. What a cool old woman.

Yet she did worry about the threat of Islamist terrorism. Not for herself, because her life was nearly over, but for us.

The worrying thing for her, and OP's grandmother is of the same generation so may share the same fear, is that in what she described as 'her' war, Britain was more homogenised and the enemy was an outsider who was easily identified.

That belief may have been an illusion - and she certainly did not believe that someone who was not the same colour or faith as her could not be her friend.

But on the occasions she expressed opinions that I disagreed with, I did not 'pull her up' on them. I may have told her that I disagreed and explained why in a discussion.

But 'pulling someone up' speaks of an attitude that is hectoring and the opposite of tolerant and, like Moonatic said, whiffs of virtue-signalling.

Janeymoo50 · 19/11/2015 12:42

My mum (sadly passed now) was reminded by me several times that it wasn't PC to say coloured people anymore, she was of the opnion that saying black was wrong. i strongly think it is/was a generation thing - although obvs not for everyone is like it and I'm not saying that makes it ok, but I can't change her background/upbringing etc.

swiggityswoogity · 19/11/2015 13:05

Sorry gruntled but you are wrong, there is no objective truth.

in 50 years time your grandchildren will call you a nasty bigot for saying gender exists, I'm out of touch now, I do not believe transsexuals women are interchangeable with women and never ever will, no matter how much indoctrination goes on I school or. how many laws are passed.

Nor will. I think much of gender fluid/trans racial /otherkin / incestuous /pedosexuals or any other nonsense that people claim should be accepted because they were 'born that way' cultural Marxist nonsense.

How do you feel about equality? when I was growing up it was about equal opportunity, now the line has spun that small groups of people are to be held accountable for. the actions of their group) only if white or male) and it is not only acceptable to discriminate against them but desirable.

MelcombeBingham · 19/11/2015 13:43

I sometimes wonder what would happen if the bubble dwellers of mumsnet tried to live virtually anywhere outside of surburban middle class Britain. Most countries I have lived in just live rather than Pearl clutching and being sactimonious about imaginary scenarios.

GruntledOne · 19/11/2015 13:56

swiggity: seriously? Has there been any time in the last 80 years when it has been OK to say that one particular race or religion should be bombed off the planet?

CanadianJohn · 19/11/2015 14:11

Language is changing all the time - to be honest, I can't keep up with what is correct this year, and what is not. Upthread, someone mentioned "the p-word". What the fuck is the p-word? Prick? Prostitute? Politician?

The people I associate with are quite diverse, we have lots of Asians, and south-Asians. Whites (or whatever the correct term is this year) are probably in the minority. If there is any prejudice, I don't see it.

It is interesting that the very old term (late 19th century?) "person of colour" is coming back in. Clumsy expression.

redstrawberry10 · 19/11/2015 14:11

But I think at her age it's not offensive or upsetting, she's just old.

isn't that a bit patronising?

redstrawberry10 · 19/11/2015 14:16

How do you feel about equality? when I was growing up it was about equal opportunity, now the line has spun that small groups of people are to be held accountable for.

was it really though? My guess is that there was much less equality of opportunity back then.

I take your point that males and white males particularly are being left behind (white males I think may now constitute one of the worst performing groups at school). but saying you don't recognize transsexuals as a thing isn't helping your argument.

MoriartyIsMyAngel · 19/11/2015 15:18

I'm old enough to remember Jim Davidson's 'Ching Chong' impressions on Saturday night prime time TV, and he wasn't even the worst. There was a sitcom about a black family moving in next door to a white family, and how the white guy struggled to deal with it - jokes like 'How do you find each other in the dark'. Some of the same people who may have made a point of dancing with black GIs in the war, would still have laughed at racist humour in the 70s. Things have come a long way since then, and quickly enough that elderly people living in the same towns and with the same social circles may not really have had much chance to catch up.

Look at Benedict Cumberbatch - nowhere near elderly, but called a racist recently for talking about rights in the film industry for 'coloured people', an outdated and now offensive term.

Ageism is a buzz word these days (don't dare say that a 50 year old man shouldn't be allowed to chat up a 17 year old girl), but tolerance is out of the window. If someone isn't being deliberately hateful, I see no reason to cut them off from the family as some people are saying. A little gentle education is the way to go, for the children as well as the elderly relatives.

chrome100 · 19/11/2015 18:17

What's wrong with "half-caste"? I'm 34 and say that. And what's more - I am!

laureywilliams · 19/11/2015 18:37

She now even self-corrects if she accidentally use the cringe-making term "coloured"

What a sanctimonious piece of patronising, pious bollocks. I hope very much when you are that old, that you get the Language Police round kicking your door in every day.

Thanks for that Olivepip59. There was never a truer word written.

crystalgall · 19/11/2015 18:56

WTF am
I reading here?

Er yes we all know the P word is Paki...that poster didn't want to say it cos it's fucking offensive. Don't tell me it's not. I've been told I'm going to rape you, you paki on a bus..sexual abuse and racism all mixed together. That was a fun day. Are people seriously shouting ooooh PC brigade about the word paki?!
Or half-caste? Read JohnAgard's poem entitled half-caste and see how he feels about that label.
Or coloured...being black or Asian is not being a 'colour'.

Sorry people want to be able to spout their crap and then boohoo about the PC brigade. Just own your racism.

Floisme · 19/11/2015 18:57

I'm really suprised so many of you seem to think anti racism is a new thing and that old people can't possibly be expected to know about it. If the op had been talking about, let's say, same-sex marriage then I could understand it. But racism, seriously?

It's getting on for half a century since those racist sit coms were on mainstream tv. I think that's plenty of time to catch up unless you've spent the last 40 years living in a cave. I agree that outdated phrases are a different matter but even so, I don't think language has evolved quite as quickly as some of you are suggesting.

I think some attitudes on here are deeply patronising. It sounds as if some of you believe you're doing old people a kindness by ignoring them. I don't - and I'm probably nearer in age to the op's nan than I am to some of you.

GruntledOne · 19/11/2015 19:00

I'm also astonished that people think that at 86 you're so gaga that anything goes. The Queen is older than that, no-one thinks that she shouldn't have an understanding of what is or is not an acceptable thing to say.

AuntieStella · 19/11/2015 19:03

It's not your job to bring up your grandma.

It is your job to bring up your children, which is why it is totally correct for you to pull them up.

I think the approach of 'please would you not say that in front of the children' is best. Plus explaining to the children (away from the situation, unless you actively want to stoke it) why what she said is wrong. And then teaching your children about tolerance, and how you can still love your family even when you vehemently disapprove of some of the things they do or say (and which if done it uttered in public could be an offence).

SanityClause · 19/11/2015 19:21

she is confusing Muslims with terrorists as a lot of people of all ages do

Seriously? You're suggesting excusing this because there are also younger racists?

GruntledOne · 19/11/2015 19:30

mollie123, it is ludicrous only to answer the first post without taking into account subsequent posts and then complain when someone queries that what you say is contradicted what is in those posts. We can't read your mind.

Your suggestion that this lady was confusing Muslims with terrorists is a massive leap from the information given and isn't justified on the evidence. In any event, the fact that you suggest people of all ages have the same so-called confusion can't excuse this in any way. I don't believe that anyone can genuinely hold that belief unless they have serious mental health difficulties: a moment's thought would lead them to realise that it clearly isn't so.

limitedperiodonly · 19/11/2015 19:54

Your suggestion that this lady was confusing Muslims with terrorists is a massive leap from the information given and isn't justified on the evidence.

Evidence? Gruntled, I put it to you that you are confusing AIBU with a court of law.

Lovemytent · 19/11/2015 20:27

Genuine question - why are people able to freely describe themselves as e.g. 'a woman of colour', yet using the word 'coloured' is offensive ?
I am not trying to be provocative, just a genuine question as I am not sure ?

RiverTam · 19/11/2015 20:44

I think that 'coloured' in the past has been used as a perjorative term, in apartheid South Africa or in America I think. I believe that POC came about as you put the person before their skin tone.

LauraMipsum · 19/11/2015 21:22

My gran is 94 and she has been known to pull up her own sons (in their 60s) for racism.

It's not age dependent.

KatieLatie · 19/11/2015 22:05

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

mudandmayhem01 · 19/11/2015 22:13

My fil used to be casually racist, jokes etc. My dh and me have both pulled him up on it and he no longer does it in front of us anyway.

mimishimmi · 19/11/2015 22:15

She's old, just leave it. My grandparents and great-grandparents generation were all involved in WW1/2 as well. They didn't come out of it racist - they definitely blamed the racists in our own society for getting in cahoots and funding/ arming them in the first place to make themselves rich. Then getting even richer off the rebuilding contracts. Particularly my grandfather who was in Japan just after Nagasaki and stayed there until 1947. Then again, the lack of racism probably comes from the fact that we would not be considered ethnically 'pure' either.

NewLife4Me · 19/11/2015 22:24

I'd leave her to it or if possible use humour to make sure your not condoning her comments.
My dh gm was like this and he used to argue back with humour.
e.g She'd see someone who was black walk past and say to dh "you've not got any of them as friends have you?" Then go on about being British, to which dh would inform her that the person was probably as English as she was.

She was funny once though.
There was a report on tv that mentioned the subjects as lesbians.
She asked mil where Lesbia was because it had been on tv Grin

She just didn't get it, and at that age yes, they are probably the last generation who were wildly racist.
They can't pass it on to others now.