To pull my elderly Nan up on her racism?

[BlueBananas]

My Nan is 86, shes quite naive and has led a fairly sheltered life
I've just spent a few painful hours with her over lunch where she made a few very uninformed racist comments

I pulled her up and corrected her each time but was told by others at the table to leave it alone
She isn't nasty about it and I don't think she even realises some of the things she says are offensive, but they are and most things are just totally not true
But everybody seems to just nod and smile and roll their eyes at her while I just can't

Obviously she's old and set in her ways and doesn't even listen to me most of the time so there isn't much point which is why people tell me not to bother, but AIBU to carry on banging my head against a brick wall regardless?

No just leave it or a gentle 'we don't say that these days' would suffice. My DGM used to say things that made me cringe. Calling people coloured or Pakistani for anyone other than White it was never abbreviated

She grew up and lived in an area where there were very little ethnic groups other than white British. Those that did live there were dearly loved members of the small community. She wasn't racist, there was no malice or nastiness involved. It was a very different time. Perhaps it would have been different if she had been in a large multi cultural city. I think there is a difference between being racist and just being ignorant or uneducated about these things. I didn't know until recently that the term 'mixed race' was now seen as derogatory, I forget what the correct term now is I'm not racist, but perhsps uneducated about certain aspects of political correctness .

Depends.

You have to remember that "Negro" and "Retard" were actually polite terms when they were growing up that they were suppose to use, but those words have changed over the years to "Mentally disabled" and "Person of Color". So she may well think she's being reasonably polite, when she's following an old set of rules and ideas that keep changing year to year.

My brother and I tease our grandmother when she says racist things "Grammmmaa noooo... that's racist!" in a teasing tone. She gets it. I don't think she's actually racist as DD is mixed and she adores her. She just says racist things, that make you blink and go "Wait. What?"

You'll be 86 one day OP - and I expect a lot of what YOU say then will be 'wrong' by future standards, but not by your own. Be warned.

A number of posters seem to agree with these sentiments but I think the opposite. If it does happen (and assuming I can still think and remember things), then I hope someone like the op will have the decency to tell me I'm out of step, not roll their eyes and ignore me because I'm old so it doesn't matter.

You should definitely lecture her and make what little time you have left with her as unpleasant as possible, after all you are simply a better person and morals and mores do not change at all.

Nope, no way something you have been raised to consider normal will change and leave you on the wrong side - like transsexualism.

If you find this difficult to imagine, try having a vegan live in your house, constantly being hectored about your 'wrongess' is boringboring, you change their mind and you will make them hate you

I think there's a bit of a difference between racism and veganism, no?

Besides, anti racism is hardly a modern idea. An 86 year old would be perfectly familiar with it, unless they'd been in a coma since the 60s.

Racist, sexist and homophobic talk has been socially unacceptable since I was a kid in the 1980s. I can see why the changing times might have been challenging for some folk who were in their eighties back then, especially those who were war crimes survivors, but today's elderly people, including the grandmother in this OP, would've been middle-aged at that point. So, I think that "age" is an unlikely excuse for unpleasant behaviour today, because people have had thirty years to pull themselves together.

Concerns about immigration levels are different. That's not racism, as long as you apply the rules to white Americans, Australians and Norwegians, as well as to black and brown guys from the Caribbean and Asia etc.

OP - remember your nan grew up in a differant world and she lived as a child through the second world war. To her as to a lot of her age group the world today with it's 'isms' is not what she grew up with.
She is not showing 'racist behaviour' - she is using the wrong words just as I have been amazed at people on here calling the indigenous population (yes there has been a population here for many 100s of years) 'the whites' as if it was an acceptable term to use.
As a mother of a mixed race (sorry but that is what he calls himself ) son I would not use (I hope) the wrong word but if I did I would not expect people to 'pull me up on it' unless it was said in a derogatory, discriminatory way.

You'll be 86 one day OP - and I expect a lot of what YOU say then will be 'wrong' by future standards, but not by your own. Be warned

Sorry, this is nonsense. Some things are objectively wrong, always have been, always will be. And that includes racism.

I have endured racism on and off all my life, attitudes are changing and DS has only had one incident, obviously that's not great but it is better these days. I think considering her age and what she said it's not the worst offence.

Mollie123, on what basis do you say that expressing a wish to bomb all Islams off the face of the planet is "using the wrong words"?

I agree with gruntled
I expect I'll be completely out of step with societal norms on sexuality by the time I'm 80, I'm barely up to speed now. What I won't do is comment when it's irrelevant and I'll listen if it's pointed out if I'm using words which are considered offensive. One advantage that we have over our elders is the concept of the language roundabout. I can cope words changing without taking it as a personal affront and proof that the world has gone mad.

I agree with gruntled too and I suspect I'm a lot closer to old age than a lot of you. Providing memory is unimpaired, I think it's ridiculous to say an 86 year old can't be expected to know about racism.

Agreed. My 80 year old mum reads the paper, watches the news and TV shows in general, reads books. It would be absolute bullshit to say that she wouldn't know what racism or homophobia or anything else unacceptable these days is. Bullshit and a massive insult to her intelligence.

my gran announced in a busy restaurant that Muslims want to skin us alive. I had to walk out. She was 81 at the time. She is unapolagetically racist, oh and black people all look like monkeys because of their big lips. I despise her and won't leave my children alone with her.

Oh but she isn't racist because she had a 2 week romance with a chinese man when she was 50.

I have no tolerance for racism like this.

gruntled - do not put words into my post which were not there
the original OP which I was answering did not include the words
And the worst things she said was when we were talking about what's happening in Paris, she thinks that "the rest of the world should get together and bomb all the 'Islams' off the face of the planet" which appear later in the thread.
to excuse this 86 yo - she was wrong to say that but suspect at her age she is confusing Muslims with terrorists as a lot of people of all ages do.

and I repeat - it is just WORDS expressing a misguided opinion - for goodness sake the PC language police are out today.
OP your gran is 86 - cut her some slack.

Nope, still don't buy that. Whatever their age, no-one should be allowed to get away with expressing such a repellent view.

Some fantastic virtue-signalling on this thread: "Hey, look at me, I pulled someone up for saying something racist. I'm just admirably non-racist, I can't help myself".

What is the point of arguing with an 86 year old woman, who presumably is not directing the UK's foreign policy, on her views on 'bombing Islams'?

My nan is 92, smart, very well travelled, compassionate and kind and lives in a very culturally diverse town. BUT she does read the DM and I do gently persuade her to think about questioning what she reads in the newspaper, which she will believe to be true, not because she's racist, but because it's printed in a newspaper, and she's trusting and possibly naive...now that, I can forgive her for.

I agree to cut the 86yo some slack. When my mum cleared out my granddad house after he died she found brown shoe polish. The particular shade of brown was described on the printed tin by the manufacturer as "ni**er brown" - the full word, being used descriptively. People of 86 are from a completely different era, depending in their level of isolation may by far out of date with things. But this doesn't make them nasty. I'd just leave it. More important than shielding children from such comments is to educate them. I have a homophobic elderly relative who makes homophobic comments in front of my junior school aged dc. My dc know very well that you can marry who you like regardless of man/woman etc and they have school friends with same sex parents. They hear the homophobic comments, they think the elderly relative has odd views and we discuss it afterwards. In fact, the dc said to my mum, hey nanny, do you know that great uncle Bertie has issues with gay people. The dc know right from wrong, doesn't matter what they hear.

limited I agree to a certain extent but that goes for most debate. And when children might here or people who would be personally affronted it needs challenging.

Racism is a horrible, bad thing. However, I fail to see how correcting a very elderly person is going to help change the world. What's the point? My grandmother is hopelessly racist - but I fail to see how starting a family argument is actually going to benefit anyone.

I'm not making excuses for your gran or for anyone else around her age.

But it's important to remember that some elderly people really only mix with other elderly people (if at all).

Therefore, some will have had little opportunity to have their minds 'opened' to how different and diverse many people's way of thinking is now.

Not all OAPs will be using internet forums for example (something that has opened and changed the minds of many) and some will believe what the tabloids say is gospel, because they 'read it in the newspaper'.

All in all I think you can get the measure of most elderly people, in so much as whether they're nasty people, or just 'living in the past' when the country wasn't nearly as diverse as it is now.

My 87 year old Aunt for example may not use 'PC' language all the time, but she has a heart of gold and would do anything to help someone, no matter where they came from or what they looked like.

I think there's a difference between using what is now seen as in-PC outdated terms such as negro, coloured or half-caste, and being what you might call deliberately racist, for want of a better term. For example, my 89-yr old grandmother might say coloured or half-caste, but she also donates a high percentage of her very modest income to WaterAid and ActionAid, and is the very proud recipient of many cards/letters from sponsored children in Africa. She has black and Asian friends and would be horrified if she was seen to be treating them differently.

To be honest, OP, I'm not convinced there are hard and fast rules here - age/upbringing might be a factor, but whether that makes outright racism OK is, for me, a definite no. That said, you understand the dynamics of your family, and your nan's attitude and intentions better than anyone here, so I think you have to make your own decision about what you think is right or fair in terms of what she says, and talking to her about it.

That said, in the circumstances you describe, I for one would probably be gently pointing out the unfairness of such comments. Whether it would get me anywhere is another matter!