to think racism is getting worse in light of recent world events?

[thefutureofpolitics]

I ask this as when I opened Mumsnet this morning, there were a few particularly unpleasant threads about the wearing of burka. Are there just some really bigoted people around or is it fear created by recent world events? To these people, would it not be better to understand different cultures and learn from them rather than to tar every Muslim with the same brush of fear and suspicion? There is good and bad in every race and cultural diversity in Britain is a great thing.

Discuss.

I don't mind the burka or any other full face veil in principle but I can't help feeling uncomfortable when I meet someone wearing it because I can't see the expressions on their face so find it difficult to make conversation although I do try. I know this is me and not them

There are plenty of 'people of colour' who also find the beliefs and customs of Islam deeply offensive.

LOL at the guilt tripping lostcat

It's a shame millions of people died to make the place more tolerant but yet it's being overrun by people with nasty bigoted opinions..the other side of coin.

olivepip59 Of course there are many different interpretations, depending on many different factors, and that is what makes it interesting. However, to point blank say that something is wrong without any attempt of understanding that some people have a different way of life due to race / religion is bigoted and that was pretty much what I saw on the posts earlier today. One of the threads read like rantings from a National Front rally.

However, to point blank say that something is wrong without any attempt of understanding that some people have a different way of life due to race / religion is bigoted and that was pretty much what I saw on the posts earlier today.

but there are certain things that you really don't have to understand. Some cultural practices are just hideous, no matter what light you shine on it. I couldn't care less what culture you come from, if you are executing homosexuals for being homosexuals you are on the wrong side of the moral tracks.

Sovereignty over ones own body is a liberal idea and is born out of this idea of equal rights and property. Ones own body is only conceived in this way because we are always constituted by the notion of "us and them" the very same liberal political philosophy that posits an "us and them" when thinking about the concept race, or nation, or religion or culture.

I agree that moral relativism is not to be lauded but liberal western political philosophy and laws of equality gave birth to moral relativism. And the answer is?

I have no issue with women choosing to wear the burka. Of course I have an issue with the fact that certain cultural practices and belief subjugate women. It's trying to disentangle how years of religious indoctrination, ideology and social practice limit those women's choices or shape them.

But to try and use liberal notions of equality and property in ones own body is a nonsense. Western values are not everyone's values.

What is more liberalism is a peace project...lift man from a state of barbaric nature, and the state and market will mediate between competing self interested individuals. The truth is though that since the invention of the modern liberal state we have had no peace whatsoever.

The Burka and Niqab and Hijab are not to do with Race.

They are to do with a recent particularly bigoted form of one religion.
THIS
pbs.twimg.com/media/CHs0VhHWwAAEvTP.jpg
Is how women dressed in Tehran until 1979

FGM is nothing to do with race
Its to do with the brutal subjugation of women based on a crass misinterpretation of a 1700 year old book.

I think that the reaction to Islamic terrorists and ISIS would be different if they were white people.

Could you imagine white right wing extremists wreaking this amount of havoc in the world? The reaction would be far stronger than a bit of tentative bombing.

Imagine if these people were nazis? What they're doing is no different to the level of barbarity that the SS demonstrated.

Liberals believe that everyone should be treated equally.

Do so then.

Ones own body is only conceived in this way because we are always constituted by the notion of "us and them" the very same liberal political philosophy that posits an "us and them" when thinking about the concept race, or nation, or religion or culture.

that makes no sense. it does not come from a sense of us and them. Depending on what brand of philosophy you are reading, it can come from a sense of self preservation and property rights. There is no us and them, just me and not me.

I agree that moral relativism is not to be lauded but liberal western political philosophy and laws of equality gave birth to moral relativism. And the answer is?

"liberal western philosophy" is far from one thing, from which many philosophical ideas come from, relativism and absolutism are two (very different ones).

I think that the reaction to Islamic terrorists and ISIS would be different if they were white people.

IRA
ETA
FARC
Shining Path

Yes..you and not you !!

Moral relativism stems from liberal political philosophy.

Isis are not moral relativists. They want to impose one moral standard upon us all.

I'm not saying that relativism and absolutism do not predate liberalism. But relativism finds its home in liberal democracy.

talking yes agree.

Fanjo nope not a guilt trip unless you feel guilty just fact.

Seriously you must mix with some really nasty people or read the daily mail if you see this country is overun by bigots

It really isn't is it!

did you miss where i said the worst comments are comments on Guardian Facebook stories?

No way do i read the Daily Mail

I think YABU, OP. Britain is actually remarkably un-racist.

One thing that is happening though, is that important debates that we need to have aren't being shut down quite so rapidly and squeamishly by fire-hosing accusations of racism around.

In a world where it's never been easier to travel, it's not racist to want to have a serious debate about integration. At root it's about how we navigate between having a society so homogeneous it's stifling, and one so culturally fragmented that we're unable to find enough common ground to defend against savage attacks on our basic values.

Well stop reading the guardian then. Clearly that's bollocks too.

the stories themselves are worthwhile, its just the bigots are everywhere, commenting on every news story, is my whole point.

I think that there would be less racism if some high ranking muslim (like pope equivalent) made say a tv broadcast saying that true muslims should not associate themselves with these lunatics. I know individuals have said similar but I don't think this is strong enough and I'm surprised this hasn't happened already, fear of repercussions maybe.

many have

Maybe he (it's not going to be a she, is it?) is reluctant to do so, for fear of being branded a racist - because the lunatics have mostly been of the same colour.

Could you imagine white right wing extremists wreaking this amount of havoc in the world? The reaction would be far stronger than a bit of tentative bombing.

I agree if this was risen up Nazi's again everyone would be talking very differently. Other groups like the IRA didnt want world annihilation and domination like nazis did and isis do.

But they are modern day Nazis.

fanjo you seem determined to have one view on all this. why? whats your agenda?

"fanjo you seem determined to have one view on all this. why? whats your agenda?"

Am i meant to hold more than one view? Or change my view because people post scathing and sarky comments to me?

Just catching up with whole thread and had to comment on Timri's earlier post -absolutely spot on