To throw away the landlord's shit in the loft?

[MuttonWasAGoose]

We've just moved in to a nice house. The landlady mentioned that the loft was partly boarded out and that they'd left "a couple of boxes in the very back that we couldn't reach."

I just went to stow some things and pretty most of the boarded out space is full of their stuff. It's about a dozen or so cartons of crap. Mostly toys and holiday decorations.

None of this is on the inventory. I'd like to use that space for our empty suitcases, camping gear, etc. There's already a large shed full of their stuff that I grudgingly accept we can't use. But the loft situation annoys me.

DH feels it would be wrong to empty the loft. I have been in this situation before (previous landlord was much, much worse and I did throw everything away.) I just have no patience for this. I think it's infantile to be unable to take responsibility for your belongings. If they can't be bothered to move it, or even inventory it, then they clearly can't really care about it.

The first carton I looked in had what was clearly a well-loved child's teddy. Even I don't have the heart to toss that. But what about the other stuff?

I once had "bed sheet, heavily soiled" on an inventory!!!

I wouldn't rent a house with a loft if I couldn't have access to it. OP has said the same. Storage is important to tenants too as it happens. I'm hoping to be in my current house for a few years but don't plan on throwing out all of DDs old clothes etc as we may well have another down the line- I store them in my (rented) loft. I am astounded that so many people here think it is acceptable to let a house with personal items left behind.

oddity - no, locking the loft is different. If you don't exclude part of the house, your tenants are paying to use it. It is no different from expecting them to pay for your spare room or storage locker. It is very dishonest to use a part of a house someone else is paying for, to store your own belongings.

As a tenant, when I found LL had left surplus belongings, I did contact them - because it's polite - but you have to remember this is not your home any more. If you leave something like a hoover or a lawn mower, and someone who is paying for that space moves in, they may not want to store your possessions, and you must be prepared either to dispose of them, or to put them on the inventory honestly.

I can understand why someone would do it if they were moving abroad temporarily. But they should put everything into a locked cupboard or something AND make it clear from the outset (from viewing if possible) that this area is not included in the rental agreement.

However, this landlord is not moving abroad. They've just bought another house and have moved home. And I gather they own/let a lot of properties so they're not amateurs. Perhaps this is the first time they've rented what has been their personal residence so they haven't really thought about it. It seems that a lot of people here assume that it's OK to just leave things in what is now someone else's home.

On the other hand, it may be an oversight and she might have nothing but good intentions - although I guess I need to give her a nudge.

One thing of note - when we viewed the house there were flat screen TV's in practically every room. We asked agent if they were staying and the LL came and took them. Except on in the master bedroom - which doesn't work (wonky pixilated screen). She said we could replace it if we wanted. I'd rather not have the eyesore on the wall at all, but was willing to try the ROKU box on it. Seems she just couldn't be bothered to remove it because it was broken. Shit like that grates a bit.

I am utterly bemused by why someone with a home of their own would want to leave their own stuff in a house they were renting out (although I realise some circumstances like bereavement, or a temporary move might make this necessary). If the LL has moved to a bigger house, not that far away either she wants this stuff enough to come and get it, or she should provide a skip for it. If you aren't going to have a use for Christmas decorations in December, you clearly own alternatives and don't need these in your life anymore.

Having said that, if the house suits you in every other way, it's worth being a bit patient about waiting for the stuff to go, if you're planning on being there for 10 years, it really isn't significant if it takes a month or two to get sorted. Having a rental which is reliably paid for, with no gaps, for a decade, should make it worth her while to move this stuff, personally I'm not a LL, but I wouldn't be willing to lose thousands of pounds, for the sake of not sorting through some of my junk. Be nice, but be firm, you're paying a good price, you'll be a good tenant, everyone should want to sort this out amicably.

Ha ha haaa! I've been on Mumsnet a long time but rarely seen such a lot of tizzyness on a thread. At 14:59 op said "ok I'll talk to her" and yet still it rages on .

I've had some excellent landlords. But I think sometimes some of them forget that people renting are not all Victorian beggars who're grateful for anothing - and that's why, IMust.

I once had a LL - and he turned out to be quite kind and conscientious - who asked us if we'd like him to leave the off-inventory broken Ikea table for us. We said no, and he was genuinely surprised, pointing out we could have mended it for free and had 'a whole piece of furniture'.

Ah, but mintyy, it's so engaging.

The thing is, of course a LL may want to lock a loft for any number of reasons. Ceiling joists aren't load bearing like floor joists, if it isn't boarded there is a real risk of a tenant putting their foot through the ceiling, if you store somethings in lofts, they can help vermin continue to survive. I do t think the loft is necessarily a tenants' right to storage. Obviously in OP's scenario she should be able as the LL specifically said it wasn't a problem. I personally didn't want to lock it as I wanted the peace of mind from a safety perspective that the tenants could access in case of any leaks/disasters and our aerial is in the loft so maintenance of that too. I don't see the need to lock away in a special safe a couple of boxes of (emotionally) precious things. Maybe I'm too naive and trusting though!

Of course, oddity - but LL who want to lock lofts need to say so on the tenancy agreement. It's very normal.

You could also stipulate that the loft is out of bounds except in emergency, and that is normal too. Any normal LL will have done their duty and checked this, won't they?

It's not naive to make provision for those situations, but it is dishonest to expect someone else to pay for your storage space. You are effectively cheating someone out of something they have paid for, aren't you?

tenants not understanding how the joists work could be a problem. I think that's a good reason to put a breakable lock on with the stipulation that it's only to be accessed for emergencies. Otherwise, I think the professional thing to do is to board it out properly with the expectation that the tenant will use it.

The way this loft is set up, the hatch brings you up on the side, nearly under the eaves The centre is boarded (reachable from the hatch). That's where the landlord's boxes currently are, as well as some other boxes sat on flats of cardboard laid over the joists. That I might be an idiot who wants to store barbells doesn't seem to be a factor here.

Things I have have had on inventories past :

2 garden chairs broken
One freezer -broken
Suitcase
Wall clock
Rusty hacksaw
Cool box
Painting of some puppies
40 year old bicycle
Box of rusty nails
Skanky bathmat
Mouldy tent

Obviouslyask the landlord to removed the crap, but if they don't and it's not on the inventory then dump it.

You are effectively cheating someone out of something they have paid for, aren't you??

Yes. But apparently that's ok, because they are property owners and you should be grateful.

I think that's the attitude, isn't it, IfNot?!

But I've actually rarely come across this in LL, and I've always rented. I've had some highly entitled LL, and more who were just ignorant and didn't understand the law, but most of them are not actually corrupt or deliberately mean. What is needed is proper rules for landlords, so that people who are good and honest can get the recognition they deserve and so that ignorant or bad LL are weeded out or made to shape up.

How bloody odd that a landlord would leave personal belongings in a rented house. I've never heard of such a thing and would not expect a tenant to put up with it.

I agree that it is the OP's home and she shouldn't have to fumble around the LL's stuff.

I am a LL back home in Aus and the house was left completely empty for the tenants, even though it meant we had to hire a rather expensive container to keep our stuff in while away.

I think most landlords are nice enough people. I just think a lot of these amateurs and accidental landlords are naive. They think, "But, that's my house! It's my home! And those are my things and I intend to live there again someday." Professional landlords should understand that they own the property - the bricks and the mortar - and they stand to benefit from said ownership via rent and capital gains. But that building - once rented to tenants - is no longer their home.

A friend of mine had to move out of her flat as the owner (actually the owner's mum) kept dropping by for nonsense reasons. Refused to make an appointment - just dropped by with some curtains or whatever. One morning friend woke up to find the woman in her kitchen. She'd just let herself in. The lady insisted that she had every right to do this because my friend hadn't answered the door when she knocked.

There are quite a few amateur landlords out there who really cannot accept that this sort of thing is unlawful.

YY, mutton.

I had a landlord whose mother was in the early stages of dementia. He thought it would be nice for her to go and check out our rented house once a week - so she'd turn up once a week, and briskly put out belongings either in the bin or randomly in the cupboards. Eventually I had to say we needed 24 hours notice for her to enter, and he was shocked to find that was the law - he thought it would just be nice for her to potter around someone else's house tidying up. It was a big shared house, so I think he really thought it would be helpful and nice, but he didn't realise how far gone she was and he didn't understand that, even if you are a tenant, you still have belongings you care about.

Maybe I'm too naive and trusting though!

I would say that's a charitable assessment. Tbh you're coming across as unprofessional, woolly-minded, massively over-sentimental and over-invested personally and thus typical of the kind of amateur landlord that makes the UK such a nightmare to be a tenant in.

I don't think she is over-sentimental - she just doesn't understand that people are not all as rich as she is. A lot of people think that tenants are renting space, but won't mind paying extra to store their belongings, because it's only a few hundred a year. They simply don't understand that for most people, paying an extra few hundred for space that has already been paid for, is a big deal.

Don't throw away anything before talking to them. That should be common sense.

That said, how are you people with intrusive LL's not just changing the locks? I would. It's not that expensive.

Tbh you sound the kind of tenant every LL dreads. You come across as very bitter, entitled,and extremely scathing about everything, having a pop at your mother (if you don't want the rocking chair just bin it - like you want to with the LL 'grubby' and 'threadbare' teddy.)
Hope she comes to her senses, realises you will be trouble and gets you out before you starting throwing out her possessions.
If you don't like it there - move.

Buxton you are being very unfair. OP has already said she won't throw away anything. I can understand her frustration. It is up to the LL to find storage for their belongings.

I'm rather confused why you left it from 2:45pm when you started this thread and everyone said "call her!" to 8pm to call then be annoyed she wasn't available...

If she was intending to move back to the house one day, then it might be likely she's left the stuff there with no intention of shifting it, however as she has bought a new house across town and intends to make that her long term family home (not your house) then it's even more likely that this is a mix up. That it includes Christmas decorations makes that seem more likely too - that's not something you just store long term without looking at again, it's something you use yearly.

I must agree with Buxton, that your innital reaction was anger and thinking of ways you could get away with getting rid of it all rather than assume it was a bit of a mix up you could fix easily would make you seem like the sort of prickly person it's best not to have as a client in any business setting.

We let our house out for 6months and locked some stuff up in the attic

It was all done through the letting agency and the tenants were well aware that this had been done

It does seem very weird to leave stuff long term with out it being on the inventory and explained to the tenants

I'm totally with you OP but also understand that you don't really want to bin the stuff, just to get it out of YOUR house. That's what it is. I really don't get why people don't understand that in many ways paying rent is no different to paying a mortgage on a month to month basis (obviously the end result is different). If your bank manager showed up and said, we'd like to store an old photocopier in the shed, we can because we own 80% of the house, they'd be told to do one.

I have a flat and a house that are rented out and I am extremely grateful that the (extremely good) tenants I have chose to rent from me!! Long may they stay - and beyond some paint and garden tools in the shed (both for the house) there is nothing left there. If there's a problem, we fix it as soon as humanly possible and keep out of their way at all other times!

When does this LL intend to get this stuff back?! Are you going to get a call a week before Christmas to say 'I need my tree lights'?! Ridiculous.

And you're right about the emotional link to stuff....I'm married to one of those.