to expect an 11 year old to be able to take some responsibility for herself?

[RainbowDashed]

My eldest is 11, just started secondary school this year. I KNOW that it's a big adjustment and we've tried to help her be more organised but honestly, she's so bloody dippy, her mind seems to be elsewhere ALL THE FUCKING TIME

Examples:

I have had two texts from her today, one asking me to take her a plastic tub to the bus stop for food tech as she hadn't remembered to bring one herself. I didn't get the text until after the bus had gone, and I was busy getting dd2 and myself out of the door at the time anyway, a detour to the bus stop would have made me late for work so I couldn't have done it anyway. Then at break time I get another text asking me to drop one at school - this is the school that's almost an hour's drive from where I work - by the time I'd gone home, found her tub, got it to school and then driven back to work it would have taken the best part of 2 hours, the 50 miles worth of petrol notwithstanding. So I said no. (She has found one now apparently so problem solved). She KNEW she had food tech today. I'd helped her gather the ingredients. All she had to do for herself was remember a tub.

Yesterday I sent her to find a table in a shopping centre food hall, she came back to tell me that there was one in the corner, should she sit there? Well, erm, YES, that's why I sent you. By the time she wandered slowly back to the seating area the table had been taken and we had to wait ages for a seat. Lovely cold burger and chips.

We were away this weekend Christmas shopping. We stayed away overnight. She brought some pyjamas and clean knickers then complained because she'd spilt her drink down her top so she'd have to wear a dirty top for the rest of the weekend. Could we please buy her a new one? I'd told her to pack a change of clothing, she'd forgotten apparently.

She is constantly forgetting PE kit, swimming kit, dinner money. If she's looking for something but can't find it at first glance, she gives up. I found a £20 on the drive the other day that she'd tried to put in her pocket and missed and not realised.

We have an agreement that in order to get her pocket money she has to keep her room tidy enough that whoever is hoovering / cleaning / dusting can get in there to do it. She hasn't had any pocket money for ages, her room always looks like someones ransacked it. She has other jobs, emptying the dishwasher, making sure curtains are open etc etc so nothing an 11 year old shouldn't be more than capable of doing and she never remembers to do it.

How on earth do I help her become a bit more organised? I am really getting to the end of my tether with it. I do my best to not enable her by picking up after her but that doesn't seem to help. I've been helping her come up with systems to remember what she needs each day but she doesn't look at them.

Am I asking too much of her? We are an extremely busy family, I do as much as I can for her but a) she wants to be treated more like an adult which it's hard to do when she can't remember to look at a calendar or job list b) sometimes I forget things too and she needs to read her lists and take some responsibility for herself, surely?

Arggghhhh I'm just so frustrated. Even if someone could tell me she'll get better as she gets older it would help, as I despair of her ever fending for herself or driving. Her 6 year old sister is more organised than she is.

I think the thing about the dirty top is actually really sad, sorry. At 11 I would have double checked her bag and chucked an extra top in. And we are also very busy.

The bottom line is: some children need more support than others.

Yes an 11 year old should be able to do the things you say, and she can't.

So you have to grit your teeth and continue to encourage, nag, support, help - she will get there in the end.

My DS1 was so woefully useless I would tear my hair out. I smiled at the £20 note thing, my DS managed to lose one too when out shopping. He was too disorganised to bring a wallet and didn't want us to look after it or put it in his pocket - he just had to hold it, didn't he? Until, erm, he wasn't holding it any more and didn't know where it was.

Anyway, ff a few years - he managed surprisingly well and matured a lot in the first year of secondary. But we soon learned not to let him take a coat to school as he always lost it. I felt mean sending him out without a coat in sub-zero temperatures, but I knew that if I sent him with a coat that day, he'd be going without it in sub zero temperatures the next day because he would have lost it. (He took DH's coat one day by mistake and we never saw that again either!) Well, he copes pretty well now and even is regarded as "the organiser" in his friendship group. < puts head between knees to relieve faintness >

Miracles do happen!

DD1 managed to go out with her school bag one day recently ...right next to the door we put her phone (otherwise she will get distracted) and her tablet and a cup of water ...she put the bag down to take the medicine and left without it...
DP (on his day off) did the 22 mile PIA round trip to take it in for her...(for a PE kit etc wouldn't bother but this was everything she needed for the day)

my dtr was very like you describe yours to be and it was infuriating because she is pretty bright so we couldn't figure out why she just didn't 'get' it and organise herself. At school we often had comments about how well she did in class etc but not reflected in tests/exams.
At almost 15 she was diagnosed with dyspraxia. It was almost undetected because she was so bright that she had developed coping mechanisms but by the time she reached GCSE year the stress of 'coping' got to be too much and her inability to process and her working memory started to become obvious.
It is surprising that it was detected because most of her scores on the assessment were very high. There were just a couple that although still above average, were lower and out of synch with the higher scores.
Knowing that there was a reason behind her inability to organise herself, her 'clumsiness' and her variable results at school has been an enlightenment to her especially and makes me far more tolerant of her 'ways'.
It is definitely worth considering a dyspraxia assessment even if you think unlikely

I will admit that this was me as a kid... I was awful at losing/forgetting stuff, I still struggle with it tbh I don't know why but things just kind of fall out of my head as soon as i start thinking of something else. I have improved though, I got good grades despite this and I've now kept a baby alive for 4 months so far so there is hope for your DD yet

Tuilamum @ managing to keep a baby alive - I've kept mine alive for 11 years and 6 years - still wonder why I was allowed to take them home from hospital, I mean, didn't they know how useless I was and how little I knew??

needmorespace interesting that your dd has masked the dyspraxia. I'm assuming that it was the disparity between different test scores than the actual cumulative score that was the indicator? I've been wondering this about my dd, it's only really become apparent since she started secondary school and she has to think for herself more. We don't get the letters home and so forth that we used to get from primary school, I suppose primary children really are micromanaged in comparison to secondary.

You know, on reflection, DD gets a lot of her traits from me , I have just developed a VERY high level of organisation to overcome it. I live by calendars and phone reminders. I've been trying to coach dd to do the same, and getting frustrated at the lack of success, but it's not her fault, I need to remember that. I was at boarding school from age 9 so had to learn quickly. It has just occured to me this morning that I probably expect too much from her as I have no idea what 11 year olds should be capable of.

OP ...pleased don't take this the wrong way ...it is great to be able to cope ...but you don't always have to and neither does your DD....
I said I suspect I also have ADHD. For lots and lots of reasons from being a small child eg my mother thought I was 'hyperactive' and that was 40 yrs ago.
I am supposed to have a slightly higher than average IQ (just Wiki'd it - apparently in the top 5% of the population which I find really really hard to believe...)
So anyway I guess I should be more able than some to come up with coping strategies over the years ....and I have.
I can be ultra organised ...if I try - if I stop it all falls into chaos. (So phone apps/calendar reminders etc are great - before I was famous in my circles for forgetting friend's birthdays, appts etc.)

An ex boss described me as either the most disorganised organised or organised disorganised person they had ever met.
I am often late - I can be on time for a one off but constantly day in day out I find it really difficult. (I posted on MN once defending people being late...and got flamed. But it was a real eye opener ...it seems it isn't usual for people to stand brushing their teeth and start thinking about one thing that leads to another and then another and suddenly 10 mins have disappeared... )
I have to consciously try really hard to focus, to not drift off - it is deliberate and it is tiring.
I have habits that I have created to stop me losing things - so a home for everything and I always look back when I leave anywhere.
And I do cope really well...have it under control.
But lots of people with undiagnosed conditions like this go on to have MH problems - I have (many years ago and had other stuff going on too).
I had to have counselling and was told I had two very distinct sides to my personality - the very organised, efficient, controlled, strong side and more chaotic, vulnerable side. Part of the mess I was in was due to never allowing the chaotic side to show...when my world fell apart and things were really completely out of my control - I thought I should be to control it - I kept trying to, I couldn't let myself, I didn't know how, to just accept it. I needed to stop being so hard on myself and to let myself 'get lost' sometimes...(and I do - literally - when I can and its fun ).

Since getting DD1 diagnosed and knowing more ADHD the stuff about the 2 personalities thing makes a hell of a lot of sense to me now... the chaotic, scatty person is the natural, real ADHD me - the organised one is the fake coping me....the one I show to the world ...
Now I really make an effort to give the 'real' me more time when I can and to give myself a break - also give DD1 a break too...because it is really hard spending your life pretending to be something you aren't....

ihatevirginmobile thank you so much for that post. It resonates so much. Aside from the hyperactivity (definitely not a problem, in fact somewhat the reverse) you and your dd could be me and my dd. Often late, living in a dream world, easily distracted etc etc. Add in the general clumsiness and lack of co-ordination (the thought of her driving a car fills me with horror, that said it took me 70 lessons to pass my test in the end... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree to quote the cliche) and there we are. It's just waaaay more obvious in dd than it is in me. How do you give yourself a break? Is it simply a case of spending the weekend with no expectations or is there more to it?

I really wasn't expecting this outcome from this thread. I thought I'd either be flamed for being too harsh or to be told it was normal and to suck it up. There has been an element of both of those but the alternative of a potential diagnosis of a disorder hadn't crossed my mind until yesterday. It's a lot to take in but it does make sense.

Anyway, dh & I have decided that we will speak to the school, with a view to requesting an assessment. They have been brilliant with her pastoral care so far. Maybe because they see something too??? We'll see.

There is an advantage of you and DD being similar - it means you can understand them better... you can be kinder to them.
I have always understood DD1 - she can be really really difficult, oppositional and so can I - so although I have got things wrong, lost my temper etc (I am far from perfect) I haven't made the mistakes my parents made with me. (Our relationship had completely broken down by my teen years - took many years to repair - by DD1s age I was school refusing and worse - on a path of self destruction)

Giving myself a break...
I do it by not getting cross with myself for forgetting something or not doing something ... and appreciating that some things don't really matter.
I also try to not plan ahead unless I really need to ..so I try not to organise even small things eg playdates in advance because then I have to remember.
I guess I try and do instantaneous, impulsive things

Getting lost - it sounds silly but going somewhere different I normally would have map printed off, using public transport I would know the times of the buses/trains, stops, timetables - everything would be planned -mainly so I can get a list together so I don't forget something. But if I'm not under time pressure sometimes I just go - might have a look at a map and get a vague idea of where I'm going first but that's it ...make sure I have the essentials (purse and keys and phone) and maybe what I really need for why I am going - and then just see what happens...and usually it is fine (only went quite badly once - got the wrong bus meant we were on a later than ideal train ....then a signal failure - we had to get a special train and a replacement bus - school night (Sunday) and we didn't get home till past 1am...but then again we all survived...just...) Or even just as minor as going off the main path on a country walk...see were we end up.
I also put everything on a to do list (work, personal life, DCs but not essentials like get DCs to school or eat) It is massive with dates that things need to be done by...I look at it usually several times a day -
But sometimes if there is a day were there are no real pressing deadlines - I just ignore the list and for the whole day just do what I remember to ... I am then 'behind' but I don't get upset by it ...just change the dates and fit them in somewhere else ...at the worse DCs might miss an activity...but that's fine - I'm having a dizzy day off

DD14 seems to become worse with age I'm afraid. I find texting her gets through as she's always on the pissing thing with various reminders. I tried the whole "she'll learn for herself" in terms of forgetting school equipment then getting detentions. She didn't she just got used to a detention being a part of her average day! She loses things to all the time.

She sounds exactly like me at that age, probably older too.

I'm 23 now and have a job which requires extreme organisation!

She will be fine.