to expect an 11 year old to be able to take some responsibility for herself?

[RainbowDashed]

My eldest is 11, just started secondary school this year. I KNOW that it's a big adjustment and we've tried to help her be more organised but honestly, she's so bloody dippy, her mind seems to be elsewhere ALL THE FUCKING TIME

Examples:

I have had two texts from her today, one asking me to take her a plastic tub to the bus stop for food tech as she hadn't remembered to bring one herself. I didn't get the text until after the bus had gone, and I was busy getting dd2 and myself out of the door at the time anyway, a detour to the bus stop would have made me late for work so I couldn't have done it anyway. Then at break time I get another text asking me to drop one at school - this is the school that's almost an hour's drive from where I work - by the time I'd gone home, found her tub, got it to school and then driven back to work it would have taken the best part of 2 hours, the 50 miles worth of petrol notwithstanding. So I said no. (She has found one now apparently so problem solved). She KNEW she had food tech today. I'd helped her gather the ingredients. All she had to do for herself was remember a tub.

Yesterday I sent her to find a table in a shopping centre food hall, she came back to tell me that there was one in the corner, should she sit there? Well, erm, YES, that's why I sent you. By the time she wandered slowly back to the seating area the table had been taken and we had to wait ages for a seat. Lovely cold burger and chips.

We were away this weekend Christmas shopping. We stayed away overnight. She brought some pyjamas and clean knickers then complained because she'd spilt her drink down her top so she'd have to wear a dirty top for the rest of the weekend. Could we please buy her a new one? I'd told her to pack a change of clothing, she'd forgotten apparently.

She is constantly forgetting PE kit, swimming kit, dinner money. If she's looking for something but can't find it at first glance, she gives up. I found a £20 on the drive the other day that she'd tried to put in her pocket and missed and not realised.

We have an agreement that in order to get her pocket money she has to keep her room tidy enough that whoever is hoovering / cleaning / dusting can get in there to do it. She hasn't had any pocket money for ages, her room always looks like someones ransacked it. She has other jobs, emptying the dishwasher, making sure curtains are open etc etc so nothing an 11 year old shouldn't be more than capable of doing and she never remembers to do it.

How on earth do I help her become a bit more organised? I am really getting to the end of my tether with it. I do my best to not enable her by picking up after her but that doesn't seem to help. I've been helping her come up with systems to remember what she needs each day but she doesn't look at them.

Am I asking too much of her? We are an extremely busy family, I do as much as I can for her but a) she wants to be treated more like an adult which it's hard to do when she can't remember to look at a calendar or job list b) sometimes I forget things too and she needs to read her lists and take some responsibility for herself, surely?

Arggghhhh I'm just so frustrated. Even if someone could tell me she'll get better as she gets older it would help, as I despair of her ever fending for herself or driving. Her 6 year old sister is more organised than she is.

In same position as Wrath. Worth considering a SEN like dyspraxia, for instance. I was convinced DS was just bloody idle, but was proved wrong and ended up feeling rather bad at all the chiding and eye-rolling!

cailin if it was only occasional I wouldn't be so pissed off, it's CONSTANT though. Every day she has to be reminded to do the same things. Open the curtains. Empty the dishwasher. Those are your jobs. Don't leave stuff on the floor where it will get trodden on or tripped over. Repeat ad nauseum.

Reminders on her phone - I asked her to do it but she hasn't. I'll do it for her I think, in the spirit of helping and not expecting too much.

I am by nature a scatterbrain myself, I have a very busy life and things get forgotten, which is why I have calendars, reminders etc etc all over the place.

If she has a phone to text, doesn't that mean she will also have a calendar in her phone so she can set reminders? That's what I do, as I always forget otherwise - might be an idea and see if that works?

X-post, sorry! Just saw the reminders comment from OP.

If she is android and set up on gmail you can sent reminders to her email and they go in the calendar automatically.

This drove me insane with my DS. I was always highly organised as a child, I always knew what PE kit, books, equipment etc was wanted. In fact I had major anxiety about forgetting things or bringing the wrong things, so it wasn't necessarily a healthy way to be. DS the complete opposite, unfortunately took after his dad with that. It's been an uphill battle, and I've come to realise that he'll always need a certain level of help due to his SN. (Dyslexia and what I believe is undiagnosed dyspraxia, in addition to mental health problems.) However at age 20 is now finally getting better and at least accepts the need that he does need to plan things and organise himself, even if it doesn't always go to plan!

Definitely don't enable by rushing to the rescue. I only help my DS by reminding him to do stuff. If he messes up after that, it's on him, and he accepts that now.

I think some people are just naturally this way!!

My 12 year old DS ( also just started sec school) is pretty disorganised, he's very much the " in a sec" type, if he's got an hour to do something, he'll do it in the final 5 minutes. Usually resulting in something being forgotten. Drives me mad!

I'm leaving him to it though, he's learning the hard way, he's had homework that's been completed on the laptop but failed to print off resulting in him not having time so it's not handed in on time! He's now learnt to pack his bag the night before!

She has an old iPhone. Will have to check whether I can access her calendar. We have total control over the phone so shouldn't be too difficult anyway.

She does have a number of dyspraxic traits. Food for thought. Regardless off what she may or may not have, we still need to come up with tactics for her, she will still have to live in the big bad world, so it's kind of academic anyway. Would there be any advantage in looking into it further?

That does sound bad...maybe more than just a bit disorganised...
You could look at ADHD - girls are often missed as they usually are better at conforming to fit in socially.
My DD wasn't diagnosed until 13 (although I suspected for years) looking at her school (and out of school activity) reports over the years all together the common theme is 'focus' and 'concentration' ....or rather the lack of.
She can be 'lively' at home but (without realising) I dealt with her in a way to keep it mostly under control, keep her calm, she rarely goes hyper. She hasn't ever really been more than a bit lively - never really hyper at school - just at one after school activity -but that is probably due to fitting in with social norms and expectations.
Organisers on their phone (I use them religiously - suspect I have it too) make sure they sync with something in the cloud - can be viewed on different devices - as the Dr said - they are really great for someone with ADHD - until they lose their phone....

Getting a diagnosis of a SN - I didn't want DD labelled - but when she was she asked me if I knew why I hadn't done it before...
She said it isn't an excuse but an explanation ...she isn't just useless, lazy, stupid -she has a valid reason for finding things that other people find easy so hard. (And she is academically bright - which I think is part of the reason she coped so well for so long)

I found reducing the to do list to something they could easily remember helped. And then insisting encouraging to do it in that exact same order every single day so it became habit.

eg In the morning they had:

Table Toilet Teeth
Bag Shoes Coat

They could chant it in the end We then have a list stuck to the fridge with the stuff needed for each day.

How settled is she into her new school? I'm inclined to offer more support until they're settled. After that I think a bit of natural consequences do no harm at all

Thank you. Have looked up some more symptoms. She has most of the "inattentive" features of ADD/ADHD but none of the "hyperactivity" markers. Dyspraxia - she met all of her milestones but was at the later end of them. She didn't get the hang of riding a bike until much later than her peers (aged 9). She flails about a bit when she runs. She's a bit clumsy and is utterly disorganised (which we've established upthread). It's never impacted on her day to day life before now though, which is why I've never even considered it.

That said, I do think that if she does have any kind of disorder, it's only very mild. It's never been flagged up to me as a potential issue before and I fear I may be overreacting to the possibility iyswim. Might pop over to the SN board for a chat.

I've been speaking to the progress co-ordinator for her year about her detention problems - fortunately she appears to be a lovely woman who has the children's best interests at heart and both she and the HOY have been looking out for DD. I think a word with them may be in order.

In the meantime, I will put some more strategies in place to help her, as regardless of the reasons, she's going to have to learn to manage being a naturally scatty person.

Thanks again.

Dd1 is 11 and thankfully she takes full responsibility for her school stuff (except i do her lunch). However I can well imagine dd3 (5) being very much like this and it'll annoy me so much. She is such a ditherer and in a world of her own. I dont know where she gets it from as I am a very efficient person. Think I need to start training her.

Don't worry too much. It's probably going to improve lots in the next 6 months. My DD is now 12 and I could have written your post at the start of her first year at secondary school. She improved 10 fold at the end of that school year and has started to do all these things independently now. I would continue as you are and definitely just support her but don't run around after her regarding things like forgotten items. But do continue to support her with plans and reminders.

It's at least partially a maturation thing. My dd was driving us demented over the same things at that age, now at 13.5 she has started to get her act together. There are still things I have to regularly check but she is taking a lot more responsibility. Hang in there.

Oh, meant to add that she was diagnosed with ADD and put on medication which obviously also helps!

Leave her to it. Sink or swim. I do remind my 14 and 11 year old to clean rooms, change bedding and clean their pets.

My ds same age could never organise himself for the day. I have to supervise or stand over him, asking him, right what do you need for today? Where's your so and so? Go and get your ..., and we do it together.

Same with bedroom. I have to be really specific. Pick up all your books and put them on the shelf, put those socks in the drawer, close the drawer, etc.

Note: diagnosis of dyspraxia.

I think it definitely IS worth looking into. As a previous poster said, it doesn't excuse the disorganisation, but it does help explain it. I found that made me more tolerant (and I am not naturally tolerant as a v. organised person myself!!). Also, it helps schools to realise that they struggle with organisation as opposed to just can't be arsed - there are strategies they can use at school to help them. The diagnosis is, in my view, helpful. DS has a v. high IQ and that can mask things. Also, it is often harder to spot in girls than boys. I now use same strategy as Zipping. Boring, but does work. Also find making lists for him to tick off helpful. He has just started at secondary school and is using a 'to do' list on his phone which is definitely helping.

Could you make tidying her room a Sat/Sun morning thing? (Or other regular time.) Nothing nice happens until it's done. And check, like a Sgt Major, that she hasn't just shoved everything under the bed. Btw too late now, but I do think it pays off to start training them as young as possible. Even a 5 yr old can make a bed and pick things up off the floor.

My 11yo ds loves me to read him posts from AIBU.

He says that you're not being unreasonable, but you have "a boring life."

Now he's worried that you'll be offended.

I've reminded him that his life is boring, too.

Assuming no other issues, I'd also second the natural consequences and routines line. My DD is also in year 7, and our rules are...

During the week: no tidy bedroom - no friends over to play (friends only allowed in a tidy room). Sunday mornings are also allocated for tidying bedrooms / finishing homework / doing chores etc. There's no tv / iPad / going out with friends until it's done. If they waste all day by not tidying their room - then they don't get the free time. However, now DD mostly gets it done quickly so she can do what she wants after.

Forget something at school - suffer the punishment school gives. I won't go taking things in (largely because we can't - DH and I both work an hour away from the school!)

Loses something - pays for it to be replaced.

However, at the same time we have helped to structure organisation - lists every night for what she needs to pack and remember. Bags once packed are put by the front door ready to go. We try to make sure she always checks behind her to see she hasn't left anything behind.

Like most year 7s, she took a while to get organised, but having set time every day for doing homework, or packing bags has meant she's now in a routine and getting better (although still not perfect!)

She sounds like she needs a bit of micro managing!

Does she have a bedtime? Can you set her aside 15 minutes before bed to ensure everything is done before the next day? Get her to look through her school timetable for the next day with a list she can go through one by one.

1. lunch money in coat
2. sports kit in bag by door
3. food tech ingredients packed and by front door
4. uniform laid out and ready
5. school bag packed with correct books and by front door

Get her in the habit of completing her homework when she gets home the night she receives it.

Give her a prompt every night unril she starts doing it herself.

If she still manages to forget her stuff then tough shit to her. Let her suffer the consequences and learn her lesson, whether that be no lunch, a detention or whatever

this is very helpful for my and my 11 yr old. thank you all.

My DD is 11 and, by the standards of her peer group, very organised. But she still needs the odd reminder and occasionally texts me about something she forgot to take to school and needs me to drop off. At 11 they still need managing.