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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to not send my girls on this school trip because of my beliefs

942 replies

JustGiveMeTwoMinutes · 13/11/2015 16:39

The trip is to a mosque and the girls (year 3 and 4) have to cover their heads with a scarf, the boys don't have to.

Just to be clear about where I am coming from, this is about a specific practice which I believe is discriminatory and therefore disagree with. I would not choose myself to enter a building that I could only enter if I wore particular clothes but where that requirement was limited to one gender or one group defined by arbitrary characteristics. I would be happy to cover my head as a sign of respect/tradition if everyone entering the building was required to do so.

They can make their own decision on this when they are adults.

Am I being ridiculous and petty or is it reasonable to stand up for my view that just because a custom is part of a religion that does not excuse it being discriminatory?

OP posts:
cailindana · 14/11/2015 12:22

Ok, I'm not sure how that's relevant to this discussion. Do you understand how a conversation works keyboard - do you usually butt in talking about things that weren't said by the other people?

cailindana · 14/11/2015 12:23

Ah I see now you're one of those, keyboard. Ok, well good talking to you, thanks for contributing.

keyboardgirl123 · 14/11/2015 12:24

No problem :)

SplatterMustard · 14/11/2015 12:27

YABU. What are you teaching them about respect for other religions if you refuse to let them go because they would have to wear a head scarf?

hampsterdam · 14/11/2015 12:27

Keyboard smoking girl you are a sick and disgusting excuse for a human being. Rape apologists are not welcome on these boards. You are the one placing the onus on women's choice of clothes to protect them from rape. The implication as I understand it being men are all rapists that won't be able to control themselves if they see a woman's knee.

keyboardgirl123 · 14/11/2015 12:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

hampsterdam · 14/11/2015 12:29

Splatter there is no expectation of respect for others religions, only their right to practice that religion. What are you reaching girls about respect for themselves when boys are fine as they are but girls need covering to be modest decent and respectful enough?

cailindana · 14/11/2015 12:29

hampsterdam I wouldn't engage with either of them tbh - I think you're wasting your time.

redstrawberries101 · 14/11/2015 12:32

I'm leaving you all to it!! I've just found out I'm expecting so can't really be bothered with this. All the best to you all. Take care x

hampsterdam · 14/11/2015 12:33

I won't any more cail. I've reported all of keyboards posts. Some people are so disgusting is it any wonder women are still having to fight for equality in the 21st century.

cailindana · 14/11/2015 12:34

Congratulations Melvali, I hope you have a smooth pregnancy and a great future with your new little one.

ZoeTurtle · 14/11/2015 12:58

YABU. What are you teaching them about respect for other religions if you refuse to let them go because they would have to wear a head scarf?

Why should they respect religions that treat them as lesser because they have a vagina?

AnthonyBlanche · 14/11/2015 13:06

No religion deserves respect.

noeffingidea · 14/11/2015 13:10

OP it's your decision. You have the right to withhold permission, and your child probably won't be the only one.
It's perfectly possible to learn about Islam without visiting a mosque, after all children learn about lots of different things and places without visiting them.

DeoGratias · 14/11/2015 13:36

I wish we didn't have censorship. I want to kow what she said - did she say women who don't cover up are asking for it? If so does it really harm us to read that - it helps us to fight views that women ask for it unless they wear the burka if we let women say such things so we can then argue against them. I don't want anyone censored.

LeaveMyWingsBehindMe · 14/11/2015 13:58

I will PM you Deo

redstrawberries101 · 14/11/2015 14:01

Thanks caleinda it's my first so very exciting! Got all the usual symptoms too so just taking it easy. All the best

VestalVirgin · 14/11/2015 14:03

Deo, I have seen forums that don't delete such posts, and frankly, you wouldn't like them. The rape apologists are all over them, dominating the conversation. You cannot reason with rape apologists, it is very tiresome to try and argue against them.

I didn't know mumsnet deleted rape apologism posts, but that explains why it is one of the forums where you can get an actual debate going without the trolls taking it over.

LeaveMyWingsBehindMe · 14/11/2015 14:05

Oh actually no I won't, I see you already responded directly to the thread from Smoking that basically implied that women who didn't cover had it coming, and it is there quoted in your own post. She/He is also keyboard girl but I can't remember anything more specific from his/her posts than you already know, sorry.

LeaveMyWingsBehindMe · 14/11/2015 14:06

I agree actually Vestal I dislike too much censorship and MN is brilliant for free speech compared to most, but a site with no censorship at all just turns into a horrid trollfest.

hampsterdam · 14/11/2015 14:11

What she said was disgusting. Not just rape apology but personal attack. And irrelevant to the thread other than to show why women are still having to fight so hard for basic respect and equality.

Bambambini · 14/11/2015 14:27

Is was going to say Yabu Op as I thought it was about the trip being to a mosque. But, children this young shouldn't be forced to cover their hair - Islam doesn't require it so I've no idea why they are doing it. I'd be interested to hear the schools reasons.

There are a few little girls at my kids primary who are wearing hijab in infants - this is a new thing and seems to be coming more common. I have no problem with adults wearing it but not so keen at all on tiny girls wearing it from a very young age.

Shelby2010 · 14/11/2015 14:32

There seems to be a lot of using anti-sexism as an excuse for religious intolerance on this thread.

I know several well-educated & financially independent women who choose to wear headscarves, in this country that is their choice. Just as I often see groups of young men who choose to keep their heads covered - known as 'hoodies'. Again their choice, but because they are male it is seen as mildly aggressive (in that they must be trying to hide their identities because they are up to no good). As for myself, I often cover my head with a waterproof hood when it's raining or a woolly hat when it's cold - so what?

My second point is to complain about the segregation that my niece faces on a daily basis. My nephews are also in the same situation in that they are not allowed to be educated with girls. All learning must be done in a single sex environment. Is this discrimination legal in this country? Probably, as we just call them grammar schools and get over it.

So, I know the thread has moved on quite a bit, but yes OP, YWBU to refuse to allow your daughter to go on this trip for the reasons you stated.

noeffingidea · 14/11/2015 14:41

shelby single sex schools are legal in this country, yes. There should be a choice though.

Marynary · 14/11/2015 14:52

My second point is to complain about the segregation that my niece faces on a daily basis. My nephews are also in the same situation in that they are not allowed to be educated with girls. All learning must be done in a single sex environment. Is this discrimination legal in this country? Probably, as we just call them grammar schools and get over it.

That is a ridiculous argument. Firstly, people don't have to go to single sex schools. They can choose mixed ones. Secondly, discrimination involves treating people unjustly or unfairly because of their sex, age, race etc. As girls don't receive a lower standard of education at all girl's schools than boys at all boy's schools how is it discriminatory?