to not send my girls on this school trip because of my beliefs

[JustGiveMeTwoMinutes]

The trip is to a mosque and the girls (year 3 and 4) have to cover their heads with a scarf, the boys don't have to.

Just to be clear about where I am coming from, this is about a specific practice which I believe is discriminatory and therefore disagree with. I would not choose myself to enter a building that I could only enter if I wore particular clothes but where that requirement was limited to one gender or one group defined by arbitrary characteristics. I would be happy to cover my head as a sign of respect/tradition if everyone entering the building was required to do so.

They can make their own decision on this when they are adults.

Am I being ridiculous and petty or is it reasonable to stand up for my view that just because a custom is part of a religion that does not excuse it being discriminatory?

YABU. We already accept that there are different expectations for the way in which men and women dress. Even women who choose to dress in a gender-neutral or masculine way probably wouldn't choose to walk down the street topless, as a man might on a hot day.

Headscarves represent a different cultural expectation of how women 'should' dress. Visiting a mosque will be an interesting cultural experience for your DDs. It might lead them to reflect on the different expectations of women in other cultures and religions.

Well apperently it's not to protect them in that way deo, it's 'showing respect to god'. I do wonder why boys are not expected to show the same respect to god every moment of their waking lives like girls are. Also how much a 3 or 4 year old can understand the concept of respecting god? See lots of girls in buggies round here with head coverings.

DD and I have visited mosques and temples and synagogues in a variety of countries and have experienced a variety of expectations of dress from none to complete covering (mosque in India - both sexes). DD has a strong understanding of her own worth and of the way some women (and men) might be seen as 'lesser'. With that security, observing (and conforming to) other people's cultural expectations has never shaken her belief in her own worth, but has allowed her to have a better understanding of the views of others.

whataload nope, we were covered purely for reasons of modesty. I don't think I misunderstood that; we had two hours of studying teachings each day.

My brothers wore jeans and t-shirts and had freedoms I could only dream of.

Clearly you received different interpretations to those given to my sister and me. I respect that your view may differ to mine.

But please do not presume to imply I did not understand what I was taught or to underplay the lasting damage those messages did.

I had similar view when my DD school visited a mosque and was asked to wear a headscarf. As Christians I did believe it was right that she should visit to understand a different religions work but we discussed about the scarf beforehand. When the Iman asked at the end if anyone had any questions, my DD asked why girls had to wear scarfs and not boys.

The Iman did answer but in long words my DD didn't understand and was none the wiser unfortunately.

Also, in my Penticostal church the Pastor and some of the congregation wear shorts in hot weather and we have two lovely old geezers who wear their flat caps all the time.

YANBU

Why do we have to respect religions? I have trouble with most religions as they treat women appallingly. Why should I respect this?

Why are 7 year old girls seen as lust worthy in the first place?

YANBU.

Stick to your guns and say no. We live in Britain and you will not be party to your child having to bow down and curtail to something which is not our free culture.

I wear a bra because I need to. Never wear heels. Go topless on holiday. My ds school doesn't tell boys how to wear their hair and girls can wear trousers if they wish. Uniform at work is unisex. As it should be. Yes some of these ridiculous rules do apply in some schools and in society in general. Doesn't make it right.

If I chose to go to a muslim country then of course I would respect their wishes. I live in a free society and will not, nor advocate doing it here.

And I have demonstrated against a company who was going to fire a woman who did not wear a bra. We can be against misogyny in a number of contexts at the same time.

I have never worn high heels, and have never been in a situation where I was told I had to wear them.

zzzz, so just because "western" dress is sexist, we should accept even more sexism from other cultures?

So that we can have more and more and more sexism as people from other cultures immigrate and we can integrate their sexism into our own sexism, too!

Just like with the foods from other cultures! A delicious mixture! Oh ... wait! Sexism is NOT delicious at all!

Christianity is just as misogynistic as any other religion.

And at my workplace everyone wears trousers and smartish tops, blouses or shirts. If a man at my workplace wanted to wear a skirt, that would be fine. I don't think dress codes should be sex specific.

Until fairly recently in Britain it was thought to be very vulgar for men to go topless unless on the beach or a building site. I remember boys at school being told off for taking off t shirts when hot. Men going topless is a much more recent thing.

Not as it is practised in mainstream UK churches Lumpy. My local minister is a woman.

don't see it as misogynistic or misandrist to expect visitors to comply with these trivial requests - and I think it is beneficial for children to learn about cultures and religions other than their own, which involves a bit of compliance. You're going into somebody else's house

its not trivial though is it?

You could say to the black family visiting the deep south, in apartheid, " come on Jonny, just get on the bus that says " Blacks only" , its only a seat, don't cause a fuss, it means nothing its just how things are done down here" you wouldn't condone that would you?

Say come on its only a seat, its so trivial....

I say, come be free, do not bring your sexist views with you, well you might of course. But guess what! we wont be party to it, women in the UK are just getting there. Not sure we want to go back centuries now do we.

I don't want to worship a God who cares about hair that much

Does he /she not have more important stuff to bother about?

Loads of little primary school girls near my house wear short skirts and ridiculous long white socks, it's appalling, it's November! Their brothers have total freedom and warmth. It's very very sexist and equality for men and woman should trump nonsense British cultural norms.

Why would you WANT to cover your hair though?

Unless you were cold or having a bad hair day in which case I can identify. ..

Otherwise?

I also do not agree with any form of religion either. Its man made by men basically.

no not only muslims gender base dress habits. Again in the christian denomination i was raised in (christadelphians) men had to wear suits or at least a shirt, smart shoes etc. Women aren't allowed to wear trousers and must dress "respectably".

Women must also cover their heads once baptised, if i remember rght it's to do with being the bride of jesus? or some crap like that nothing to do with the blokes.

Let's face it, Muslim men don't have the best track record, do they?

Op I think you should ask the s hook to check if it's necessary. I visited a mosque recently through work and I asked if I should cover my hair( I was happy to do so and I wear a mantilla at Catholic funerals)

The mosque said no need. It was just taking shoes off and dressing modestly. I asked my colleague for advice and she just said no mini skirts.

Its about men.

Religion is a man made thing.