About being "proud of your roots"

[CleansingSurfaceWipe]

I was just idly reading about Dermot O'Leary being "extremely proud of his Irish roots" (his parents are from Ireland, I believe, though he grew up in England). It suddenly struck me how weird I think that whole concept is.
Is it not just as absurd as someone being "ashamed"of their "roots"? How can they be a cause for either pride or shame?

'Caillindana I think you are a lot more culturally focussed than me, and many people. I just can't be bothered with a lot of that stuff. My culture is not to be too focussed on cultural traditions!'

I'm not culturally focused at all. I think perhaps you think of 'culture' as very specific rituals, where what I'm talking about is how your whole life is shaped by the world around you.

Some comedian should do a comedy sketch about it. i.e. someone blurting out their nationality at inappropriate moments and using their cultural pride as an excuse for anything.

I agree about Britain not being one homogeneous culture. It encompasses so many strands. My grandparents were not Christian, but they had a Xmas tree. Why not? In my school Diwali was a big deal and we all celebrated it.
Immigrants have always come here and carved out their own little space keeping some things from the old country, taking on some from the new, and that's generally been seen as acceptable, no?
I think thats what makes Britain quite different from say, France, where there is a stronger idea of the French way of doing things.
I can take on board what MistressDeeCee says about how it's easier to not understand cultural pride if you are part of the white indigenous majority. That's probably true, but I still don't know about the word "pride".
My elderly aunt sounds as Yorkshire as you like, but still refers to things like The Council as "the English"so there is certainly a sense of difference among the older generation, but I would say that I am pleased by many aspects of my roots, and wouldn't want to forget them.

For example, there are expressions I use in Ireland that simply don't translate in England so I can't use them at all. It affects how I express myself. Not a big deal but definitely part of cultural differences.

One thing that really annoys me is the sneering at Hallowe'en as an American thing, when Irish people have celebrated it for hundreds of years in various forms and in the form of trick or treating for at least 70 years.

Excuse me for being thick here, but if you don't either bury or cremate dead bodies, what else can you do with them?

And is this ever an issue for anyone that migrates? e.g. is there a culture left which entombs its deceased (other than royalty) in pyramids, or maybe (exercising my imagination here) spread them on crops?

Until you've had someone openly sneer at something you've done your whole life with your family then I don't think you can quite understand the 'pride' thing. If you've always lived among people who just understand how you grew up and do all the same things then of course there's no need for any 'pride' - it's all just part of normal life. But if you have people questioning what you do and say, sneering at you, laughing at you, making jokes at your expense because of where you're from, suddenly things look a bit different IME.

One thing that really annoys me is the sneering at Hallowe'en as an American thing, when Irish people have celebrated it for hundreds of years in various forms and in the form of trick or treating for at least 70 years

So have lots of other parts of the UK. It's just called different things in different parts of the world. If people sneer that's their problem.

My husband wants to donate his body to science Scremersford. I can't agree to it because it is so important for me to have a ritual with a body.

But that wasn't my original point. I was saying you might bury or cremate a body - but these aren't culturally equal choices. There is no way for example my mother would ever agree to being cremated.

And I still don't get the 'pride' thing, despite growing up guising.

In India a certain group put their dead at the top of a tower and the vultures feed.

Maybe Jain? Or Parsi?

cailin " I was saying you might bury or cremate a body - but these aren't culturally equal choices."

sorry, what do you mean by "culturally equal" please?

For example, there are expressions I use in Ireland that simply don't translate in England so I can't use them at all. It affects how I express myself. Not a big deal but definitely part of cultural differences.
You could say the same about the way they talk in Dewsbury

It's coming to a point where you won't have a choice and everyone will be cremated in the near future unfortunately as there isn't enough burial spaces anymore.

My roots are welsh and irish , I am interested in both places I enjoy the cultures and of course in the rugby I am extremely proud. Otherwise no I don't get that pride. Possibly because I live in a place in Wales full of nationalists blaming the whole of the English population even those who weren't born for drowning tryweryn.

Instead of 'culturally equal' it's more accurate to say 'culturally neutral.' People's choices over things like marriage and burial are usually culturally influenced and are not a matter of either/or.

It's not the case that there are a lack of burial spaces in Ireland Utterly.

What really grates though, is the hypocrisy. Posters here seem to be suggesting its fine to be proud of your roots if you're a supposedly 'oppressed peoples'. I wonder if those proud descendants of the Irish are proud of the kneecappings and disappearances of innocent people undertaken by irish republicans? Are they as full of shame as they seem to expect the descendants of Cromwell to be? No, thought not!

Babycham, I think you'll struggle to find anyone Irish or of Irish descent who is vociferously proud of the IRA disappearing people or the Omagh bombing. There's not a country in the world, oppressed minority or not, that doesn't have something in its history to be ashamed of.

When I said I felt an affinity with my Irish roots, it's mainly to do with pride in how my great-great-grandparents managed to make a life for themselves in Scotland, despite being genuinely oppressed.

I know a few Kurdish-Iraqis who express great pride in being Kurdish. But that's pretty bloody understandable if you're from Northern Iraq and Isis are desperate to take your language, way of life and personal safety from you. Some of these friends don't know if family members are dead or alive. They have relatives fighting in the peshmerga. They have to be proud of their culture and keep it going because if Isis have their way it won't be there when they go back.

One thing that really annoys me is the sneering at Hallowe'en as an American thing, when Irish people have celebrated it for hundreds of years in various forms and in the form of trick or treating for at least 70 years

I was under the impression people found the excessive dressing up (as in professional standard make up and very elaborate) costumes an American thing and a bit over the top compared to say putting on a sheet and dressing up as a ghost or bobbing for apples. And isn't Halloween originally a pagan festival and nothing to do with Christianity?

Ingrigued at the poster's Yorkshire grandmother who doesn't consider herself English!

When I said I felt an affinity with my Irish roots, it's mainly to do with pride in how my great-great-grandparents managed to make a life for themselves in Scotland, despite being genuinely oppressed

But surely that's feeling pride, or having respect, for what your forebears did as opposed to feeling pride for the place where they happened to be born .

cailin - I thought you didn't really mean to use the word "equal".

I guess I find a lot of things "neutral" due to being an atheist.

Maybe sometimes "pride" is used as a poor substitute "feel happy about". e.g. my friend just won an award, nothing to do with me but I say "I'm proud of you" meaning "I'm excited and happy that you achieved this and well impressed with your hard work".

I'm another one who doesn't understand the concept of pride or shame in something I haven't actually done or participated in.

My ancestors all led pretty run of the mill existences from what I can gather, although a few went off to war. Now, I can appreciate, of course, that what people of that generation experienced during a war was monumental, but that doesn't make me proud of them. Why would it?

But surely that's feeling pride, or having respect, for what your forebears did as opposed to feeling pride for the place where they happened to be born

I see what you mean, SirChenjin, they could have been from anywhere. I think the fact that they managed to maintain their cultural traditions despite it being much easier and often safer not to has a lot to do with it. For example, there are bloody dozens of men in my family named Patrick. If I had a son I'd at least want to use that as a middle to represent a connection with the past. Prejudice where I live (Glasgow) is still alive and well - DH, who doesn't have a sectarian bone in his body, was against using it as a first name because, apparently, it very clearly states which side of the fence you stand on. Madness.

Oh yes, the west coast prejudice (on both sides, to be fair...!) - I know it well. I work in Lanarkshire - now that's an education

I'm certainly proud of things that my forebears have achieved (those that I know of, you can only know about the previous 2/3 generations to a large extent) but that doesn't make me proud of my roots from various parts of the UK - it just (as lorelei says) makes me feel happy that the achieved what they wanted. It doesn't make me proud of my Highland crofting roots, say, because I didn't do anything done anything that involved going out in a horrendous winter and looking after the livestock, for example.

Lorelei, would you personally consider the choice between just being cremated with no one present or having a funeral of some kind to be a neutral one, as in you're not bothered which one happens?

I don't think it's pride as such, I think people are focussing in that word and missing the point. I think it's refusing to be ashamed of where you are from whether it is country, class, religion etc - especially if where you are from etc has meant that others will judge you or possibly look down on you. There are so many stereotypes about this things, often negatively.

I could pretend when I'm form a different background etc to fit in, but I won't be ashamed of where I'm from and the life my parents and grandparents made the best of.

Who said anything about a cremation where no-one is present? Surely most people would prefer people to be present at their send off, irrespective of its form? That's not a cultural preference, that's basic human need to feel they are loved and will be missed.

Although as we'll all be dead at our funerals we'll never actually know what sort of send off we'll really get