To complain to this teacher (and what do I say)?

[MerryMarigold]

Dd (Y2) started a new school on Monday. The school uniform says PE kit should be school T shirt and black shorts. Before she started and I was in school, I saw some of the older girls doing PE in cycling shorts, so I assumed black leggings would be ok and sent her in with these in her PE kit.

Anyway, she had PE on Wednesday and came home saying she is not allowed the leggings and needs black shorts. Fine , I will go to the uniform shop at the weekend, which is probably the only place you can get them at this time of year. Then yesterday she had PE again and had to sit out because she didn't have the shorts. Apparently you can't do gymnastics in leggings. She was sad as they were playing stuck in the mud which she loves. I really don't see why you can't wear leggings to play that!

This is not some posh school, it is a state school in a fairly deprived area. At our last school we didn't even have a pointless PE uniform.

I just feel it was very unkind to make a small girl sit out of PE which she loves, single her out in her first week at a new school and give me one evening's notice to get shorts for her.

So, anyway, do I bring this up with class teacher (who is lovely)? Or PE teacher herself? And what do I say?

I wouldn't speak to the teacher, I think this is an issue that's solely yours.
You were told what she needed- you bought something else. Your daughter told you that wasn't right and you didn't replace it by the time she had her next lesson.

That would have been quite an embarrassing situation for your daughter to have been in, regardless of whether the teacher made her sit out of PE or not. She would have been the only one wearing leggings and in all likelihood would have been asked by other children why she didn't have shorts like the others.

I don"t see a Muslim family seeing skin tight leggings as hugely appropriate attire for PE either, tbh.

You are not being at all unreasonable to think the school are being totally over the top on this. I really don't understand those that are OK with the school reacting like this.

The only thing is, you probably should have explained to them (or provided a note) that you didn't have shorts and it would take a few days to sort out.

Whether it is worth complaining is another thing. It unlikely to change anything and of course you are getting the shorts anyway. Might be worth finding out if they are this ridiculously strict on everything orcwas just one teacher going off on one.

Whether they are skin tight leggings or baggier yoga pant type things is not really the point, if they are not shorts then they are not suitable and not regulation according to the rules of the school in this case.

Sorry that was in response to round about the Muslim hypothetical question.

How can this be the teacher's fault? It is entirely your fault that your daughter was singled out as despite knowing the rules you failed to follow them. It's not rocket science. Leggings aren't shorts. Kit your child out correctly. Yabu.

I have every sympathy with you OP. Quite often when a child starts a new school they don't have the complete uniform right away, and most people understand that. Is the PE teacher a full-time member of staff, or does she come in occasionally (i.e. to cover PPA)?Anyway she sounds rather unpleasant to treat a new child the way she did.

LeaveMyWings - do you think I'm thick? I wasn't the one who raised the entirely irrelevant point about PE kits for Muslim girls... But once the ridiculous point had been raised, I couldn't help but point out that even if you do think for some reason that someone else's religion is remotely relevant to whether or not you follow a school's uniform policy, leggings are not in any event likely to be the first choice of sportswear for a strict Muslim intent on modest dress. They may cover your skin, but I don't think they hide very much else!

I have taught PE in a class of solely Muslim children. They actually didn't get changed at all. Just took their shoes off (dance lesson). This is entirely irrelevant to the thread since the OP's child does not appear to be Muslim.

Yes good point, of course they are not going to wear things that are very clingy around their um and genitals but I wasn't really thinking about that particularly, I was just thinking that the school was objecting to anything that was full length as opposed to short. If leggings are considered unsuitable then i imagine they are still unsuitable, even with shorts or a skort over the top. I suppose it depends what the nature of the school's objection to leggings is. If it's because they cling, and leggings with shorts over the top is fine, then that would make sense.

I imagine their reason for objecting is because they require people to respect the school's uniform policy... If you are a strict Muslim and believe you cannot therefore wear shorts with bare legs, even before puberty, respect for your religion trumps respect for school uniform rules, but not if your only reason for objecting is a simple lack of respect for school policy.

Ok, I have just moved from a 90% Muslim area. Leggings are fine for them in primary, but not shorts. Pretty irrelevant, but may explain why it's always been leggings for us and why I assumed it would be ok (having seen cycling shorts). I like the PP suggestion that dd should have told the leggings up, or pulled them up to one height. Problem solved! Anyway, thanks all. Regardless of whether it's my fault or not, it was still not a nice way to treat a new child. And neither was her communication good. I was neither informed by her personally that leggings were unacceptable nor informed that dd was excluded from the lesson. That can't be right. If dd were ds1, I would not have known leggings were unacceptable nor that he'd missed a lesson. Doesn't tell me a thing that boy!

Lordy, it's not a lack of respect for school policy. I have now quite rapidly respected it! It was a genuine mistaken assumption in the midst of moving house and 3 kids into a new school! From a school where leggings were the norm for girls.

well I disagree there roundabout I don't think anyone's reason for flouting the school's uniform policy trumps anyone else's. If girl A doesn't want to show her legs and would feel mortified and humiliated if made to do so because she's a Muslim, who is to say her feelings are more valid that Girl B who just hated people seeing her legs because she hates them and they are too fat/thin and she feels judged and scrutinised? What does it matter what informs her decision and her feeling on that? Whether it's Islam or any other religion or whether it's just a massive hatred of her legs, her feelings of humiliation are the same - who are we to tell her otherwise?

I don't see how any school can say with a straight face

'we think as a girl at this school you shouldn't wear trousers or long skirts and we consider it essential that you show your legs from the knees down for reasons we can't quite articulate but it's something to do with tradition and respect and if you don't comply then you disrespect us as a school and you disrespect our policy. But if you refuse to comply with our stupid nonsensical policy on religious grounds then we are happy to respect your right to disrespect the policy that for all other pupils we consider to be of paramount importance.'

In a state school something is either suitable and appropriate, or it isn't. The rules shouldn't change depending on your religion or cultural heritage. If you can argue that something is ok 'for her because she's a Muslim' then it should be okay for everyone.

I think making a dc sit out on the first couple of lessons is really OTT and unnecessarily mean tbh.

This year ds1 has gone into Juniors and the indoor PE day has changed from Friday to Tuesday. On the first week back I forgot to send his PE kit in (we were only told on the Monday and it slipped my mind - I was still stuck on Friday being the day) and he was made to sit it out and watch with another 4 ish dc.

It was only stick in the mud and other games that could have easily been done in their school polo and trousers - they all have bare feet anyway. No gymnastics or anything that would require shorts iyswim. Ds was really upset - he loves gym and felt embarrassed at being made to sit it out on the second day of a new school year.

School uniform/games uniform policy should be followed but I don't think a bit of leeway at the start is too much to ask. It's a school, not the bloody army.

We were told shorts for indoor pe so they could grip on apparatus etc. The older kids might not have been doing gym, hence being able to wear full length. Not worth a complaint IMO.

At the school I work in, we have a policy of shorts/leggings for inside PE but joggers are allowed for outside. There are also specific colours. If we don't inforce this, we are in trouble ourselves.

I can see the argument about joggers and gym, but it's hardly a health and safety issue for dance lessons.

The colour issue pisses me off though. Many of our parents don't have the spare cash to be buying extra stuff in specific colours.

But leggings aren't shorts OP. Its hard enough for a child being new without making them stand out (ex teacher here). Asda/Next loads of places have cheap school uniform all year round. I never got why some parents always had to do stuff like this, re uniform and other stuff. I could never decide if it was just a vague/ditzy organisation thing or a rebellious 'statement'. Either way it was a bit sigh making.

LeaveMyWings - campaign to change the law, then, because it protects religious sentiment but not body dysmorphia... Schools aren't allowed to say their uniform policy trumps religious sentiment.

I see no point whatsoever in arguing with a school about something that is in reality utterly trivial to you, like whether or not your child, who happily wears shorts, should be allowed leggings, instead. So all arguments on this thread along those lines, if expressed to the school, would be a stupid waste of everyone's time and goodwill. As I have already said several times on this thread, however, I entirely sympathise with the OP about the way the PE teacher behaved and that is what she spoke to the school about, which I have no problem with. The PE teacher may have been within her rights to do what she did, but was not kind or thoughtful.

Gileswithachainsaw
"And I find it staggering how people completely stop thinking for themselves and become mindless drones everyone something comes out of the mouth of teachers."

There some unresolved issues there.

witsender, it was stuck in the mud!

I don't think primary schools can enforce a uniform policy, can they? Isn't that the reason why school uniform grants aren't available for primary schools?

Either way, the teacher was being ridiculous and OTT.

Merry

Yes they absolutely can enforce primary uniform. Cant link to govt website on phone

"I never got why some parents always had to do stuff like this, re uniform and other stuff. I could never decide if it was just a vague/ditzy organisation thing or a rebellious 'statement'."

Because the OP has just moved 3 children into a different school is the reason. There are times when a bit of slack can be allowed to give parents a bit of time to get used to new 'rules' etc. All it takes is a quick quiet word and a week's leeway for goodness sake.

Can't believe some of the responses here!