To sometimes feel like a brusque tweedy old lady on MN

[Imogentlasting]

I'm not that old, but some of the views on here really astound me. No one touch my child (on a thread I started); Christmas is just for me and my little unit, no relatives allowed; how dare an elderly person park in a P&T space; etc etc etc

AIBU to sometimes think the world is slowly going mad?

The offfended thing is so confusing. I consider myself very polite, but that doesn't seem to be the same thing as trying not to give offence. There are certain groups who it is fine and dandy to insult and be aggressive towards, but other people you have to prostrate yourself before and allow yourself to be trampled underfoot.

I can't cope with the modern world!

I'd bet that my DH would have been labelled a useless arse and terrible father last night by some posters I have seen on other threads. He is neither.

His "crime"? He was filling in a form and couldn't remember the dates of birth of any of our three DDs. Of course they and I wind him up about it, but to some I've seen on here it would be an LTB offence.

It gets ridiculous. .

Depends on what you mean by it. On some issues I'd agree but only last night someone was stating that people with an who are 'disruptive' shouldn't be out in public. I'll always challenge that and don't care if you find that 'boring'.

I am grateful for this thread because I do see this attitude and find it worrying. (But is not just an age thing -and to make it about age would be defeating the object so good to see posters who give their age as relatively young here)

Sometimes it doesn't matter and it is harmless or amusing - sometimes it is frightening. The lynch mob mentality.

I absolutely agree it is about the lack of community. Other posters have made good points.When you are in a group and you know everyone - more or less - and you know what their rules and codes and expectations are there is a sort of self-regulation. Consideration is important because we all have to live together. When the community goes people are fighting for their "survival" as an individual and a completely different mindset evolves.

Am I cynical to think that it suits certain elements of society for this to be the case?

BishopBrennansArse - I agree - and have seen some pretty nasty stuff directed at you on here. That's where the common sense should come in.

Tolerance, respect, consideration, understanding, responsibility - we seem to put this below my rights, my choice, my way.

I had a train story last weekend. Train empty when I got on. I sat at table for four with my book. Hundreds of empty seats. A few stops later train stops at main station and thousands get on. I put my bag under my seat, squeeze myself in a bit and smile politely as three people sat down at the table. They did not acknowledge me then or for the next three hours. Not once. They spread themselves out and laughed, shouted, talked, shrieked, messed about as if I did not exist. It was impossible to read or sleep and I felt ill and upset. The train was packed. In the end I got up when I thought we were no more than thirty minutes from home and went to stand in the doorway. I politely said excuse me. The man had to get up to allow me out. He looked at me like I was some sort of alien, moved without a word then sat down and spread out in spite of the fact that others were standing. Why?

I genuinely don't remember, when I was growing up, people rudely leaving bags and coats on seats when the train/bus was full and people were standing.
But then, when I was a child, we stood up for elderly people, were dragged onto our mum's laps when the bus was full, and other passengers could offer to hold a toddler on their lap without causing mortal offence to the mother.

Funny, last night my sister was talking about her ex partner who has no family and, despite her urging, was saying he probably shouldn't come to our family Christmas because he's not her boyfriend anymore. My mother said that was ridiculous, he was very welcome. She also remarked that she wouldn't 'see a dog left on his own on Christmas day'.

I thought of some of the threads on here.

I am going to be such a bossy old bag when I get old. I'm not fifty yet and I'm in training.

I have no compunction about asking people to move their bags and coats on crowded trains. I did hesitate on the tube a few weeks back about a young woman sprawled across several seats because she looked preg and might have been ill, but it turned out she wasn't (someone braver than me did the tweedy thing).

There are a lot of people around who aren't actively selfish but have just never been shown or thought how to think about others, and unfortunately other people just encourage them. I sometimes click on a thread and think, FFS, just get over yourself.

But yesterday was lovely: everybody I smiled at smiled back, except one who looked a bit cross anyway, and I had a lovely natter to a fellow dog walker I'd never met before. People just need to relax a bit, remember that it really isn't all about them, and accept that the mad woman in the next queue at the supermarket who is smiling at their toddler is doing so from good intentions.

were dragged onto our mum's laps when the bus was full
YES! I can never get over the threads about how little Johnny must have a seat on the bus and can't go on his mum's lap because he might slide off, so the old lady can carry on standing as the mum can't stand because she has a bad back.

Put the sodding child on your sodding lap and get over yourself.

Another one here who was automatically dragged onto my Mum's lap when the bus was full. It was just 'standard' and not a breach of my human rights!

I remember once as my Mum dragged me onto her lap, she said "Ooh these seats are getting narrower".

To which I innocently (but very loudly) replied, "No Mummy, I think your belly's just got bigger"

Think I benefitted from a 1970's childhood where the mantra was "How would you feel if....?"
From being admonished for leaving out friends, not visiting oldies, not helping round the house and generally not taking the feelings of others into consideration my parents had this mantra as a constant reminder.

I try and do the same now with my DS but I'm constantly startled by how many children I know who are constantly told "Do what you want darling", and absolve them of any need for empathy ever.

Just a totally different world now (sigh)

I'm only in my early 30's and I'm going to have to head out at lunch and get myself some tweed!

I whole heartedly agree with al lot of what has been said on this thread, there appears to be a lot of mn users who would walk 2 mile to be offended.

I live in NI and thank goodness we haven't got to the extreme unfriendliness that is described on here, though recently I did have the pleasure of meeting one grumpy lady in a kids play area of a shopping centre. I'm afraid to say she was English (Im not judging the country by one crap resident btw).

I was with ds (2yrs old) and her ds was of similar age, as they were leaving another mum noticed her ds had left his coat, so handed it to him. The easily offended lady told he son not to talk to strangers and off they went.

I was shocked, not even a thank you, just a lecture to a two year old about not talking to strangers. Bloody ridiculous!

I thought it was the normal done thing to move a child into your lap on a crowded bus?

I do find NI is much more child friendly than a lot of other places I've lived in across the UK MrWriter. A lovely older lady, who I vaguely recognised as an acquaintance of my MIL happily held my DS2 for an entire 20 minute bus ride as I was trying to wrangle DS1 (non verbal, has additional needs). I bought her tea and cake when we got off the bus at the same stop to say thank you.

I hate all the 'you don't need to explain, just say 'No' for fairly innocuous stuff. Where's the harm in saying 'no', but as part of a nice friendly conversation?

No need to be a crabby cockwomble when crabby cockwomblery isn't called for.

I thought so too Jacob. I normally love Zoe Williams, but was fairly gobsmacked to read her saying that a child in a buggy should have equal priority with an adult in a wheelchair when it comes to buses?!

Er bit more difficult to fold a wheelchair and put an adult on your lap, no?! Sorry I'm not normally the buses and buggies on mn type honest!

I agree Dingle. 'No is a complete sentence'. It might be a complete sentence, but it's a rude ungracious complete sentence.

I just clicked on a thread about a dh buying unsolicited clothes for a poster. Boy, three posts in he was a controlling abusive arse only buying his wife clothes because of his "issues" and because he wanted a fight.

If I get another (grotesque) outfit from dh for Christmas I'll accuse him of being domineering, instead of saying, "Oh, lovely," and sneaking it back to the shop as soon as possible (after rifling through is pockets for receipt).

Oh come on ange - having experienced the joys of a 70s childhood myself I'd say '70s parents were at least as selfish as parents of young children now - the difference being that 70s parents put themselves first by a country mile, and children just had to fit around them - parents this decade tend to think they are putting their own children first... there is a lot of selfishness in both approaches...

'There are a lot of people around who aren't actively selfish but have just never been shown or thought how to think about others'

I agree. 99% of the time, if I ask people to move their bag or (politely) shove up a bit, or turn their music off on the bus, they do it without complaint. I think most people are not wanting to be agressive or actively annoy people - they're being thoughtless and inconsiderate rather than hostile. Still extremely annoying though!

Pootles2010, I agree about Zoe Williams. Most of the time she's fab, but I've heard her spouting similar nonsense about how mothers of babies can't be expected to behave politely and considerately because they're so busy and preoccupied by falling desperately in love with their baby! Puke

And yes, the stuff about how precious snowflake simply must have a seat on the train / bus makes me hurl too

I'm disappointed in Zoe Williams for that.

And yes, the stuff about how precious snowflake simply must have a seat on the train / bus makes me hurl too

that is usually counter to someone complaining children didn't stand up to let someone else sit down.

Hmm kids who can't reach anything to hold on should be sitting though... On parent's lap yes, great - but I'd squish my 3 kids onto a seat and stand myself, as I can no longer fit all 3 on my knee, to allow an elderly or vulnerable adult to sit, and I certainly would not tell them to stand for a healthy looking adult... for an infirm looking person yes, if I was already standing and it was the only way for the vulnerable person to sit.

A child under about 5 ft and 5 stone is clearly more vulnerable than me standing up on public transport, and than most reasonably healthy adults, and I'd offer somebody else's primary age or small year 7 child my seat too, just as I'd offer an elderly person, a pregnant woman etc.

The bus thing should be about common sense not some weird etiquette or competitive need to be seen to have the best manners. The question, on a crowded bus or train, should be one of who is at most risk from having to stand, and how can the maximum number of vulnerable people stay seated.

I didn't see what Zoe Williams said but I do find it sad that the wheelchair thing means wheelchair users get pitted against (usually) women with babies in buggies. Obviously a person in a wheelchair gets priority - that should go without saying - but there's something weird about the debate that means all the people with extra needs (and yes, having a child to cart about with you does mean you have extra needs simply because you are less mobile with a buggy - can't get on the tube, for instance - and even more so if you also have a toddler so need to keep a tight grip on them as well) have to fight it out while the middle aged man on the bus or the young woman on her way to work sit tight and don't have to make accommodations for anyone else.

That's what I don't like about the wheelchairs thing. Insufficient provision is made for anyone who isn't able-bodied and unencumbered.