To get annoyed at cyclists in the middle of the road

[ILiveAtTheBeach]

There are loads round here. They don't cycle to the side. They cycle in the very centre of the lane you are in. So you can't overtake if it's busy. Thus you drive to your destination in first gear. I. Haven't. Got. Time. For. This. Aargh!

Lweji - yep, that's it. It's not ideal as a 'solution' (what about those who have visual impairments - I worry about this and always cycle quite slowly when on paved sections for that reason), but the cyclists aren't doing anything wrong if they are on those sections, though some car drivers in my city don't seem to have realised this! I would love to see dedicated, wide cycle lanes instead. It would be ideal!

Most cyclists I know (myself included) are drivers as well, so they do pay tax. I do think we need to prioritise cycling infrastructure- it's a magic bullet in terms of both health and climate change, but it's not as safe as it might be without dedicated lanes and space away from cars.

"if cyclists want to have equal access to the road they should pay tax (which could contribute toward cycle lanes) and insurance"

Road tax is a tax on emissions and does not pay for the roads. A cyclist paying any form of tax is contributing towards the roads as much as any driver, not withstanding that most adult cyclists also own cars.

The majority of cyclists are insured through their home insurance or via dedicated cycle insurance policies. Regardless, there are very obvious reasons why insurance is compulsory for motor cars and not for bikes.

" to avoid any impatient overtakers to cause death and injury to themselves and others by undertaking crazy overtaking."

Also, this is utter bollocks.

The one time I got stuck behind a couple of cyclists, cycling side by side at a very leisurely pace it took 25 minutes. Does this mean that I should leave my house 15 minutes early every time I do this journey.

I don't know - I would certainly allow time for delays caused by unexpected traffic, road works and weather. It appears that you aren't often delayed by cyclists.

if cyclists want to have equal access to the road they should pay tax

I don't pay vehicle tax for my low emissions Ford Fiesta.

I do pull over usually if a car is stuck behind me but I will only do so when it is safe. And I certainly am not going to stop if I am going up a hill. I can see the problem is compounded with groups of cyclists but there is usually someone at the back on a club run shouting "car back!" and we all tuck in. I try my best anyway, I think most decent cyclists do. Sometimes though, those ninja style hybrid cars I don't always hear them behind me.

Isn't it tax on vehicles, so why should someone who doesn't emit emissions have to pay a tax. That surely would mean all road users have to pay tax, whether walking, horseriding or roller skating. I have never understood that argument. Especially as a pp pointed out that many vehicles are now tax free.

Hmm...whereas I have been thinking that cyclists should maybe get a reduction on their vehicle tax, as they use their cars less

Well many cyclists have vehicles, but many don't. I had to do without a car for a long time and used public transport but I would cycle with my kids quite often to different places. Would I have to tax my DC's bikes to? What about people who are unemployed? Does anyone remember Norman Tebbit telling the unemployed to get on their bikes and look for work. You can't tax cycling, that is just utter bonkers.

merrymouse

It would generally mean that I had to wait outside the doctors surgery/dentist/school etc for that spare fifteen minutes every time I don't encounter cyclists. Now that in itself would be totally fine - if I didn't have two junior crabbit faces wailing and screaming in the back. I do encounter cyclists A LOT - our area is very popular with MAMILs BUT they are mostly very considerate and don't stress me too much. TBH I get more stressed with folk driving 25mph in a 60 zone.

I can also appreciate that not all vehicles are liable to tax as a way to encourage no/low emission transport. However vehicle tax is not just about incentivising environmentally sound transport - a substantial chunk of money raised from vehicle tax is spent on road infrastructure. So perhaps a sliding scale of taxation for ALL who use these roads is not utterly bonkers - especially if there was a way of ensuring that revenues gained were used to improve PROPER cycle networks and this improving safety for all.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/7858570/Norman-Tebbit-my-father-got-on-his-bike-to-look-for-a-job.html

I would be more inclined to ensure that major corporations such as Costa Coffee paid their taxes than trying to get cyclists to pay for something that they are avoiding. Plenty of people don't have children, should they have to avoid paying taxes that go towards education? The benefit of cycling infrastructure is for everybody, not just cyclists!

And yet again crabbit your post misses the point, it is a vehicle tax, not a road tax that most cars are charged on.

"a substantial chunk of money raised from vehicle tax is spent on road infrastructure"

Even more comes from council and income tax. Should we submit our tax returns each year to determine who gets to use the roads?

bearleftmonkey I do know that it is a vehicle tax - but i also know that a considerable amount of money raised from VEHICLE tax pays for road infrastructure which is used by cyclists. Not missing any point.

I would also love it Costa Coffee paid their taxes. Very much.

The point is that there are a

You are missing the point by a country mile.

VED does not go into any special pot marked "for the roads".

It goes into general taxation. Therefore, a cyclist who earns 40k a year will pay more towards the roads than a motorist who pays 20k.

You are also ignoring the fact that 80% of adult cyclists also drive, so will be paying VED. They are doing you a favour by not driving - it's cars who cause congestion, not cyclists.

who earns 20k

Oops - the point is that there are all sorts of things that might delay your journey. It would be very unusual to be delayed for 15 minutes by cyclists. A minute or 2 maybe, but not 15. Similarly, it is very, very rare to encounter somebody driving at 25mph in a 60 mph zone (unless that is an appropriate speed for the conditions).

I think you are overestimating how much you are delayed by slower road users. I drive every day and the only thing that delays me regularly is volume of traffic and road works, but that is life. I can't really ban everybody else from using the road.

OP I do hope you are still reading.

Your posts make my blood boil.

I have a DC (adult) who cycles to work across London. I do not enjoy thinking about this because I know there are fuckwit drivers like you around.

You are talking bollocks. Cyclists have as much right to use the road as you do. They cycle in the middle of the lane as it's safer.

Not heard that almost ALL the cyclists killed in London have been women, riding 'unassertively' in the gutter - then mown down by cars turning left?

If you get furious at the delay- allow for it. It clearly happens enough to make you post. So leave home earlier.

You are an utter moron who shouldn't be behind the wheel if you get annoyed like this- you're a danger.

I think you are overestimating how much you are delayed by slower road users.

Eh - did you read my post? I said that normally cyclists around here are very considerate and the crazy 15 minute delay behind the two cyclists was a one off. How is that overestimating? But hey if you know my local roads better than I do great - you must be from round here. Let's have a coffee - be great to meet some fellow MNers

the cost of cars cannot be calculated as there are so many parts in the infrastrucure
highway, roads, bridges, bypasses, tunnels -planning , building and maintenance thereof etc
parking, police, courts, traffic lights, licensing, fuel manufacture and distribution, pollution damage to all of us and everything , accidents and health care cost, insurance, laws and regulations, computer and other tecnology etc
the people who carry out all of these functions have to be paid and they work in buildings that have to be maintained , furnished, served with tecnology, etc
i am sure you can all think of parts i have missed.; what is very clear is that vehicle tax is negligible. In fact it's likely that collecting it costs more than it brings in- which is commonly given as the reason that bicycles are not licensed and taxed.
Car drivers are massively subsidised by all of us - especially non car drivers.

kidlorneroll

You make some really excellent points.

How do you feel about the fact that it has been suggested that due to the fact that cars are becoming more and more efficient and environmentally sound, it has been implied by George Osborne that vehicle tax may no longer be a viable way to tax 'traffic' and that by the end of the 2020 an old style Road Tax would be implemented?

I'd also be interested on what people in general think about the insurance issue?

There is no way you I it behind a bike for 15 minutes. that's 3 miles ish

Not heard that almost ALL the cyclists killed in London have been women, riding 'unassertively' in the gutter - then mown down by cars turning left?

You are right except that they have been killed by lorries turning left. As you say, it is usually women who are killed this way.

YABU
A cyclist has as much right to make use of the carriageway as a car. And as much right to use it safely. Not taking into account entitled, impatient and self righteous car drivers.
If there was an accident you would be held up too.
Leave earlier and protect your blood pressure.