To think (actually believe) that there is a hierachy of grief when someone dies?

[Fatmomma99]

Just that really, because of a text conversation I've had with a distant by blood, but close by friendship cousin tonight.

Sorry if this is long.
My cousin had a properly crap mother (as in, my cousin would go to bed being unsure about whether or not her mother would murder her and her brother while they slept. Let's say emotionally unstable!). And so my cousin was mostly brought up by her grandmother. Her grandmother was one of those amazing women we meet sometimes. She was "all things to all people", meaning she understood what people wanted and gave it to them. She never criticized, she made you feel special. She was flawed in lots of human ways, but she was amazing.

She died 11 months ago, and my cousin was devastated, as was everyone who ever knew her. It would have been her birthday next week, so I sent my cousin a text (because she's had a really tough year with grieving and other stuff) saying "it would have been her birthday, thinking of you" and then the text conversation went on, and as part of that conversation I said "I miss her, but not as much as you do" (i.e. the point of this post - I was recognizing my loss was not as great as my cousin's) and she (she is VERY sorted) texted back "not necessarily".

But I think, actually, however much I mourn my great aunt, it's nothing compared to what my cousin is missing.

When my dad died, in my head the hierarchy was: My mum, me/my sister, his sister, grandchildren, cousins/nieces and nephews, the rest of the world. (my dad owned his own business, so had a LOT of employees who'd worked for him longer than I've been alive, and was a BIG pub go-er, so lots of pub people who were really fond of him. I didn't find their grief or sadness to be more or bigger than mine, although I appreciated that they missed him).

Possibly, this stems from when my dad's dad died; my maternal uncle (i.e. my mum's brother in law) told me at the funeral that he was sadder than me because he'd known him longer. And I remember looking at him and thinking (but not saying) "fuck off... you may have known him longer, but you saw him rarely (at big family gatherings) and he was my grandpa".

To be really, really, really clear (and not expecting anyone to read all this), I'm not negating that people feel loss or sadness at a death, I just think people should be aware however sad they are, their sadness/loss doesn't "trump" a close family member, although most family members (including me) like to know how someone they loved touched another person's life.

This is a no-brainer, isn't it?

I do see what the OP means, although there are clearly caveats. I went to a funeral a little while ago (which was a reasonably happy occasion, the person who died was VERY old and had had a happy life so it was more a celebration of their life IYSWIM). There was one person there who sat right near the front and sobbed loudly throughout. At the time, I thought, gosh they must have been really close to the deceased, I wonder how they knew him? Turns out they met him four times. That to me is quite weird - sort of grief tourism.

On the other hand, I was at a wedding recently where the housing of the mother of the groom (who had never met the groom before) told all the MOTG's friends (who'd known him since he was little) that she was a more important guest because she "was family". That I also find quite weird.

slithytove and elsa.

And to everyone who has lost someone. TBH, I'm crying so much reading this thread it's taken me ages as I keep not being able to see the screen!

I take on board what everyone is saying. And OF COURSE there are times and circs where non-family "counts" more (sorry, feel that's a bad choice of word, but can't think of a better one.
And no, I don't think I'd say any of this out loud in RL, but I do kind-of think it. But def agree with other posters that it's not all black and white and simple, and that this should be taken into account.

I will try and remember as well that people can and so say things meaning one thing or trying to be helpful and getting it wrong - that's a good point too.

My MIL posted the most awful facebook sticker thing a couple of years ago, tagging me and dh in it. Something like 'Supporting those suffering infant loss and miscarriage, hugs' etc. With a comment that she was thinking about us and the grandchild she never got to meet. I miscarried at NINE fucking weeks. For someone to compare that, or even include it in the same sentence as infant loss made me feel sick to my stomach.

I agree. I have seen this one as well and it is frankly absurd. I had a miscarriage 4 weeks ago today and it was pretty sad, but I moved on.

Titus your situation is a bit different than the one I was thinking of, and I agree that your grandmother mismanaged it. I would think that having a grandchild to look after during such a tragedy would be a much-needed salve for the wounds.

yanbu as people do filter thoughts this way.

I am struggling as my BF friend died this year, and I am of the opinion that her mothers (and fathers) grief is the greatest. I just source myself from the idea that her grief is greater than the husbands. In that a husband can replace a wife but a mother cant replace a child

I am not saying I am RIGHT btw! its just what I think - and there is backstory!

I agree that there is a hierarchy, and it's hard when you're 'in' it so to speak to step back and not let it bother you. Because it does.

for everyone.

So much more I wanted to post but it's upsetting even ten years later.

The death of an elderly/older person is normal.
Upsetting, even devastating to their family, but it's the natural way of things.
When I go to see my dads grave I see that of a young boy of 14.
That's just fucking wrong.

the circle of support thing is meant to help not force people to give cards in a pecking order. so if there is, say a tragedy like one of my kids dies in my family I as mum would look after my kids first then my DH. My siblings would support me and their family would support them etc etc. its to help you remember who you have a 'responsibility' to. so no more of my sister coming to mean tears asking me to comfort her because she's so upset about my dd dying- her job is to look after me. I AM USING AN EXAMPLE, my dd has not died

i think it make sense but in practical terms i dont see why you needed to mention it in text. i would just have said 'i miss her terribly too xx'

My best friend's parents both died within 3 months of each other. She was 26 and an only child with a full set of grandparents (including a step grandmother she was probably closest to), as well as aunts, uncles and cousins she barely knew.
That brought out some complicated grief hierarchies... I had to shake her at one point and remind her that she was at the centre of this awful situation and she did not need to be worrying about getting auntie's dogs to the second wake she'd had to organise in 3 months.

I am struggling as my BF friend died this year, and I am of the opinion that her mothers (and fathers) grief is the greatest. I just source myself from the idea that her grief is greater than the husbands. In that a husband can replace a wife but a mother cant replace a child

I'm so sorry to hear this. I think you mean best friend? That sounds horrible, a best friend is more like a sister than anything else.

I know what you mean. I actually avoid going to funerals of acquaintances because I am so emotional I know I will easily outcry the family, the life partner, the best friends - even if I didn't really know the person all that well, and you're not really supposed to wail your head off if you weren't directly affected!

I totally get where you are coming from OP. One of the things I found hardest when I lost my sister (both of us middle aged) was the knowledge that because my parents came first (I genuinely felt that - leaving aside the awful trauma of a child who loses one or both parents, I can't imagine anything worse than losing your child), I had no-one to lean on. I felt that (odd tearful outburst at funeral aside) I had to hold it together for their sake because their grief did matter more than mine. And it meant there was no-one I could curl up with and just sob my heart out. Ditto a few years later when my mum died - my dad was so devastated again it felt like my job to hold myself together. And it's just so bloody lonely and leaves you wondering if you've ever grieved properly. And leaves you feeling guilty because part of you wonders if the ability to hold it together makes you a heartless arsehole.

It's not a competition.
I know losing my dad so suddenly at 67 has altered me as a person, not just altered my life.
But compared to losing a child?
A different kind of awful, I suppose.
Love to all those on here who are grieving x

Losing your parents is like closing the books on your childhood.

Thanks Mrs DV - and for you too. Like most people I suppose I just muddle on - it's 10 and 7 years now so I suspect everything is just parcelled up in a little locked room in my brain.

Yes.
I'm not close to my mother, but was to my dad.
I feel completely adrift at 43.

SarahSavesTheDay

ah thanks

This is actually a very interesting thread |OP as you have said something that's kind of out there but unspoken

but as MRDV said I usually find people who have suffered significant loss are more compassionate and understanding than those who have experienced a peripheral loss and a lot less likely to try and 'trump' you

Complicated.
God, yes!
My dad dropped dead in front of me. I tried CPR but.....
Mum then had a heart attack the same day (broken heart syndrome they call it)
I know what you mean re picking up the phone. I sometimes phone his mobile to hear his voicemail message :(

I don't agree necessarily. People have all different responses to grief, we can't assume how anybody is going to feel. There are all kinds of things that might affect the way a person responds to the loss of a loved one and their response might seem odd to others. I can think of loads of examples in my own life where this has been the case.

I think grief is very complex and does depend on relationships and personal situations.

A close friend of mine found my miscarriage very hard because of my grief and because it reminded her of her own.

Since mine was fresher, she struggled and only confessed after a night of drinking about how hard she found things.

She apologised for feeling so upset and I told her that she should never apologise, my grief did not trump hers and in fact her grief was more personal to her.

On the other side of things some people expect you to get over things quickly because they did and that is not right either, grief is personal and while some can get passed quickly others cannot.

Another friend was telling me 4 days after my miscarriage about how lucky I was to not be like her friend whose baby died at 18 weeks into her pregnancy.

I did not feel at all lucky, nor did I appreciate her minimising my grief like that.

It also depends on situation.

At my last bereavement I was okay and could support others through it despite my own grief because they were very close and grieving hard.

But at the funeral before which was someone I was not so close I could not.

I felt grief yes, but it was magnified by my own grief from the miscarriage, some horrific things that had happened in my personal life and coming down with a raging cold.

It probably appear as though I grieved more for the first than the last but actually it was other things lowering my ability to deal with grief.

Some people do make things all about them though.

I remember a colleague in tears because someone had been all over her expecting sympathy for her aunt's loss when this person worked with the aunt.

My colleague did not need that stress.

People just need to think a bit more, empathise and accept there is no right way to grieve and that those closest to the deceased should given as much support as they need and you, grieving too, can give.

Closest may not be biologically, maritally or geographically though.

I am very sorry for your loss and for others who have lost too

I think YANBU Op, and Kate Gross' spiral is interesting (although it shouldn't need to be said') www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10832932/What-to-say-to-a-35-year-old-mother-dying-of-cancer.html

"Where you sit in the spiral defines how you behave. The rule is simple: you provide support to those closer to the centre than you. And you expect support from those further out than you. So, to put it bluntly, you can only emotionally dump on people in circles further out than your own."

yes when my mum died my arse of a stepfather told me that his grief was worse than mine 'because he had lived with her, and I didnt'.

Actually it was fucking heartbreaking being told that. I might have lived with her if it wasn't for him being an antisocial arse and before my brother being a physically abusive cunt.