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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that if a surgeon refuses to operate until you lose 21/2 stone than you should br offered some support with said weigt loss.

234 replies

northernsoul78 · 23/10/2015 14:57

So I need an operation. I am not a fool so know that losing weight makes sense before going under thr knife. So I asked my GP for help. They told me I didn't qualify for help as I don't get free prescriptions. This is a complete turnaround as the surgery used to offer nurse led clinics. It now does Slomming World referrals for people in receipt of free prescriptions.
so whilst waiting to see consultant I managed to lose maybe 10lbs.
I basically saw the Consultant who basically told me to come back in 4 months and they will book op if I have lost the best part of 21/2 stone.
Now I know this is a great incentive to lose weight but they are expecting me to lose more than the recommended 1 to 2lbs per week without support.
yet on the NHs podcast there is a woman on there with a lower BMiI than me who had no major health issues. She didn't want to pay out fow a slimming club so she went to GP and they referred her to dietician and prescribed Orlisat.
So it seems that support is there but not in my case. Obviously I am not asking for medication but I would have hoped they could offer something.
Realise I am probably being unreasonable but just fed up.

OP posts:
Purplepixiedust · 24/10/2015 09:39

To add, I can't do low carb as I am vegetarian and 5;2 is no good for me as I feel light headed if I don't get enough food. I have carbs every meal. I have done ww too which just takes a bit more thinking about but works fine. They all work if you stick to them. SW is best for me as I can eat more. I have used my fitness pal which is great and minimins.com is a great weight loss support forum - all diets covered. I am increasing my walking at the moment with an app called mapmywalk which tracks via gps and tells you how far, how fast, how many cals burnt - very motivating. Good luck.

HopeClearwater · 24/10/2015 10:12

lose

popcornpaws · 24/10/2015 12:02

You don't have scales, you don't want to budget for a weight loss class, you don't need either of these to lose weight.
Count calories, every food product has the info you need to do this.
I totally agree with mice, do it yourself for life not just until you've lost weight.
It needs to be a change for life for your health, stop looking for help from elsewhere to help you achieve this, i don't know anyone (but I'm not saying there aren't any) who has went to a weight loss class, lost the weight and kept it off, they are a crutch to fall back on when you revert to overeating as is the case with the people i know.

PrimalLass · 24/10/2015 14:20

the OP has said she has hidden the thread so no point addressing further replies to her

She didn't like the replies last time either.

AyeAmarok · 24/10/2015 15:43

Exactly Primal, because the replies explain that none of this is a barrier to losing weight. Same as they did last time, along with 100s of posts with helpful suggestions, diet strategies and support offered.

In the 4 weeks since that, it seems OP hasn't made any progress on her weight and is now back blaming the NHS for not paying for a SW membership that she could easily afford herself.

You need to take responsibility for yourself with this, nobody can do it for you, there are no short cuts.

toastedbeagle · 24/10/2015 16:35

I'm a GP and read some study about effective weight loss that said WW groups etc worked but only if you paid for them. The patients in the study who were given a 6 week membership for free lost less weight than those who paid the weekly sub. Basically because if it's costing you financially you're more likely to stick to it. I've noted this in meetings myself (I'm a member, lost 2.5 stone in 20 weeks) - a guy came on a free pass and basically lost no weight and went on about the curries he'd eaten etc.

I would double check with your GP surgery though about weight management classes, is be amazed if there was nothing available locally on free referral.

madein1995 · 24/10/2015 19:36

You may be better without the consultants diet advice, OP. When I was a teenager I was a few stones overweight and needed a knee operation. My usual consultant was fab and gave brilliant advice. He wasn't there once so I saw someone else, who told me that if I'm hungry its working, to basically remain hungry to lose weight. now aside from the fact that you shouldnt be constantly hungry when losing weight (now do slimming world where you never have to go hungry), why on earth would you tell a 15 year old to go hungr? Sure fire way to spark a bloody eating disorder

BoffinMum · 24/10/2015 22:37

This is one of the reasons why I think appetite control needs to be key. There is something really puritanical about suffering to lose weight that appeals to the smugerati, and I think that is where the rebound thing for the rest of us comes from.

When I have done well losing weight I have found that I have been able to calm my appetite down a bit so food matters less. I think if there was more of a focus on this there would be a lot more success in losing weight for many people. I do not mean diet pills, but I do mean investigating the links between carbohydrates, leptin and ghrelin as I said before. And not getting at people because they are simply getting on with what their Stone Age bodies told them they should be doing, i.e. eating stuff while it is available.

HelenaDove · 24/10/2015 22:54

I lost ten stone very quickly on slimming world in 2002/2003 (a stone a month for the first seven months) and i ended up with gallstones Two doctors AND my surgeon told me it was due to losing the weight too fast.

I regained 4 stone when i became a carer on a low income.

I started back at SW 2 years ago and have lost 4 stone in two years at roughly a pound and a half a fortnight. I have no gall bladder and am a decade older so it was slower second time around.

My start weight in 2002 was 21 stone too.

Bakeoffcake · 24/10/2015 22:56

I agree with your last post Boffin. The more rubbish I eat, the more I want. When I can get control of my appetite the weight will stop going on and hopefully will start to fall.

I always find that if I can firstly cut sugar out, chocolate, cake etc, after just a few days my appetite goes right down. I've been doing this since Thursday and there's a big bar of chocolate in the kitchen draw that I don't even want to eat it. One week ago I would have scoffed the lot.

The next thing I'm going to do is to cut down on other carbs, I will still eat bread and potatoes but I'll only eat half a portion that I'd usually eat.

I actually think cutting sugary things out in stages makes it easier to stay in control. Rather than waking up one day and thinking you have to cut all "bad things" out.

HelenaDove · 24/10/2015 23:27

Sorry i posted before reading the whole thread so didnt realise the OP had hidden it.

glen on SW this second time around ive done it differently.

a. ive reduced my portion sizes significantly despite the SW ethos of eat as much free food as you want.
b. muller lights hifi bars etc and their other so called low syn food i dont touch because its too high in sugar. sainsburys plain full fat Greek yoghurt is 5g sugar per 100g . Their low fat version is 13g sugar per 100g. I have the former and lose weight.

The NHS need to admit theyve got it wrong and their low fat advice is out of date.

c. i keep my carbs low. I totally gave up pasta and have only recently introduced it but only have it twice a month.

Writing all this down here and on other threads has made me realise ive basically been doing my own thing and just going to SW to get weighed.

i no longer pay though cos im at target.

BoffinMum · 25/10/2015 14:27

In my view, having read a fair number of peer-reviewed medical papers on exercise, nutrition and the gut out of nerdish curiosity, there are helpful foods in terms of managing appetite, which are things like vegetable soup, porridge, greenish bananas and low fat natural yoghurt. They seem to switch it off. Eating a green salad with a drizzle of nice olive oil dressing before every main meal can be helpful too, as can drinking a big glass of cold water. There is a lot of interesting science behind some of this if you dig.

Then there are unhelpful foods, which is basically anything with added sugar in, and some naturally sweet things or carbohydrate-laden things. So bread, potatoes, cake, biscuits, sweets and puddings, and possibly having too much honey. (We all know this, of course).

Fruit sort of straddles those groups as sometimes it is fine, and sometimes you get the munchies even if an hour before you were full of the stuff, e.g. gorging on strawberries, grapes, very ripe bananas and so on. Carrots and parsnips also are rather full of natural sugar and need a bit of caution here and there.

Then there are high calorie foods that are exceptionally useful in helping moderate cholesterol and appetite, and the main one of these is nuts. So a handful of plain cashew nuts on that natural yoghurt and banana breakfast you might have is generally a good thing, and won't impact on appetite. (Eating a bag of roasted and salted peanuts at the pub is not a good plan, however).

So ultimately if you want to control things, phase out the unhelpful, phase in more of the helpful and keep an eye on the fruit and sweet veg group.

Then there is exercise. Killing yourself at the gym is going to turn on the appetite for some people, and damage weight loss. However a lower level of exercise stimulates the metabolism, lowers blood sugar and can turn off appetite. A good example of this is training yourself to walk for a total of 3-4 miles a day, in other words 45-60 minutes. That is not going to wreck anything in appetite control terms.

This is of course all brilliant advice except we are surrounded by situations and people who make regular adherence very hard. However every time someone do one of the helpful things instead of the unhelpful things, it is a small victory. It does not have to be all or nothing. We also have to move beyond notions of 'satiety' in the WW and SW sense as I think they just encourage people to eat too much bacon, potatoes, etc. which does not help retrain the appetite in the long term.

(Happy for any medics to comment on the above advice, btw, just in case I have misunderstood anything, but I think it's all sound).

suzannecaravaggio · 25/10/2015 15:08

re exercise, imo strength training is very important

OurBlanche · 25/10/2015 15:48

Do you have any evidence for that, suzanne Smile

toastedbeagle you are right there is a lot of evidence for there being more belief and therefore higher efficacy levels in many interventions where the client pays. It mixes the old Health Belief Model and a cost : benefit analysis, I wish I could find the study that was specific to weight loss classes, but it may be so old it is mouldering in the loft. There must be modern versions somewhere out there...

I used to run a number of interventions (smoking cessation, over reliance on prescribed medicine, weight management and exercise for medical populations) within a very deprived area. I worked in the community, in the GP surgery and the local hospital and it became very obvious that some people were only engaging because they were entitled to access the service. They had no intention of it being successful.

So we changed the way it was accessed, added a fee and waited. Almost immediately every service got more clients, ran up a waiting list and had higher rates of success. We used 4 years of stats to analyse the specifics, it was very scary. We never offered a free service again.

I still work in smoking cessation, not quite free to all, and those who pay for their prescription etc do tend to quit more successfully (more quickly and with less recidivism).

Wolpertinger · 25/10/2015 15:53

OurBlanche when I was a medical student doing psychiatry I remember asking the psychiatrist what his private patients were like. He told me he loved seeing the self funding patients as they were highly motivated to get better - it was costing them money and they needed to get well to get back to work to pay for it. He wished he could have the same success with all his patients.

suzannecaravaggio · 25/10/2015 17:36

Do you have any evidence for that, suzanne

It's my understanding based on what I have heard, read and my own experiences OurBlanche
that's why I put 'imo' Wink

do you feel the strength training isn't important?

noeffingidea · 25/10/2015 17:41

I was going to mention quitting smoking.
I quit on my own and paid for 2 months supply of nicotine patches. People told me I was silly because I could have got them on prescription but I saw it as taking responsibility for my own health.

noeffingidea · 25/10/2015 17:43

suzanne you are correct. There is loads of evidence to support your claim.

suzannecaravaggio · 25/10/2015 17:45

suzanne you are correct. There is loads of evidence to support your claim

thanks...I know there's evidence I'm just too lazy tired from all that weightlifting to proved links :o

lighteningirl · 25/10/2015 17:46

There is a half price join Free joining offer in Bella mag this week for Slimming World

lighteningirl · 25/10/2015 17:47

Oh just seen OP has hid the thread

BoffinMum · 25/10/2015 17:56

Does it not depend on the population though? My three week full time pain management course at the hospital was free (even lunch) and I took it very seriously because I assumed they would provide the best care and only that.

On the other hand I had spent thousands over the years on private physio, chiropractic, counselling, herbal remedies and so on, and came to the conclusion anything you have to pay for is probably snake oil or a deliberate ripoff to keep you dependent on it.

That might just be me though.

Wolpertinger · 25/10/2015 18:11

Boffin you are demonstrating the fascinating effects of psychology. For you, you were clearly delighted to see a specialist team and took it highly seriously and were highly motivated to get better.

Other people might see the same team and not get better because - they didn't feel they were as specialist as something you have to pay for, if they did get better even though they weren't happy with their life at the moment, they would lose something such as sympathy and attention from friends and relatives, financial support not to work etc. Or they simply had a more complex problem that couldn't be helped by the team/medical science as it stands today.

Lots and lots of money is spent on chiropractic, herbal remedies etc and I would stand with you in saying they are snake oil - they have never been clinically proven to work but hundreds and thousands of individuals will swear it has worked for them. Why? Numerous reasons but some would be a long appointment where you feel individually listened to, the placebo effect - most people will get better whatever you do, the placebo effect is stronger if you pay money and so on.

BoffinMum · 25/10/2015 19:35

Actually now you mention it this would have been why we were psychologically screened for suitability for the programme, and when I got there we were all what I would call 'high-functioning' chronic pain sufferers who were fed up to the back teeth and were prepared to do more or less anything reasonable to get better. We all took it REALLY seriously and were super-compliant, even though some were cynical about whether it would work.

Wolpertinger · 25/10/2015 20:45

How interesting about the screening Bofffin.

I sat in on a chronic pain clinic once and it was interesting (and sad) to see the patients who really really tried although we didn't have much to offer - an elderly lady with a very crumbly spine who was dragging herself swimming regularly sticks in my mind - compared to those who didn't realise we could see the car park from the clinic and knew perfectly well that they carried their sticks and only started to limp and use them when they got in our corridor Sad.