To worry that the conservatives are going to target pensioners next

[Sjdorset]

Have anyone else noticed the anti pensioner stuff out this week? Firstly about getting rid of the essential tripple lock (2.5% so not a huge increase) and the talk that pensioners are supposedly getting more than working age people (why shouldn't they after all they have worked their entire life and don't have options available to increase their earnings).

I'm worried they maybe next on the target list, quite frankly I think this is a worrying trend building up.

www.express.co.uk/finance/retirement/445956/Fears-for-pensions-as-government-s-crucial-triple-lock-guarantee-faces-axe

Of course they will target pensioners next .

Did you not know that the only people they care about are white upper middle class males?

Of course some pensioners fall into that category so they will be fine.

What you don't see is that while my dad might be getting WFA he is also paying taxes. Last year his income tax bill was more than £100k and that doesn't include the corporate or capital gains taxes he paid. The man continues to work at 71. He is up at 5am and goes to bed at 11pm. He does not stop. There are very very few pensioners with his type of income. Those who have 'gold plated' pensions paying out final salary pensions are paying income taxes so the overall cost impact becomes marginal.

Another aspect of this debate is the wide range of OAPs. My dad is working from 6am to 10pm with short breaks for meals. He knows his time of being able to work is limited. His health is already starting to fail with him having prostate issues as well as arthritis and circulation issues. My MIL is one year older and my goodness she is almost like an 80 year old. She has done nothing to maintain her health through the years. In part they didn't have the education but they also didn't have the income. I will be surprised if she makes it to 80 as mentally she has already given up. We help them afford living in an elevator building as she can't walk up and down stairs.

lieselvontwat thanks for clarifying. You'll appreciate, I imagine, that there have been some sweeping generalisations over the course of the thread that have a go at pensioners generically as if we are all clones that live the same (rather selfish) lives, taking privileges for granted and thinking we are special snowflakes.

There have been many threads like this and it is tiring and annoying to
find yourself shoved in a box marked "pensioner" and subtitled "selfish", "entitled" etc.

I feel I must fight this lazy stereotyping - it's no more accurate than saying all teenagers are lazy, entitled and rude.

Seems ageism is that last permissible form of discrimination.

Count me in Grimbletart like you I am dismayed with the ageism that is being spouted on here. Perhaps they haven't realised old age hopefully will come to them and I hope society is kinder!!

No I don't suppose anyone thinks a wealthy pensioner should receive winter fuel allowance, but as has been pointed out before it is something you just receive once you receive a State pension. It is up to the Government to make a decision about it.

Why? Pensioners have done very well and it's about time some of the cuts are targeted at them rather than the young. The younger generation has been savaged by unaffordable housing, unaffordable education, crap wages, very high living costs whilst pensioners are still getting perks that they don't need. Most of them have low or non-existant housing costs, having been able to buy proper family homes on very low wages very cheaply, have had free education, good pensions, access to free medical care. They now have free travel, winter allowance, free prescriptions, loads of free or reduced entry into museums, galleries, leisure centres etc. Many of them are landlords having priced out young families because one home is not enough. They are exempt from the bedroom tax. The younger generation have basically been economically and socially sacrificed so that relatively rich pensioners can be even richer. The reason = most pensioners vote, so parties fawn all over them to get their votes. It's an absolute disgrace!

They haven't had any cuts. Why worry? Everyone else besides the very wealthy is getting rammed.

What constitutes a wealthy pensioner? Are we talking about those on a basic state pension, those who have a private pension and an income of £20,000, £30,000, £100,000? Where would you start making cuts? Is £115 per week too much for a pensioner to live on? As others have said there are too many sweeping generalisations.

WFA should be linked to pension credit. Bus passes surely have environmental benefits......

However I don't think pensions will every go, there is no way any political party will be able to get that through. The age of qualification will undoubtedly go up again, however.

I think that comparing age groups is unhelpful there are good and bad, hardworking and lazy, principled and entitled people of all ages! What is true is that a lot of people are unaware of poverty and how others live. My mum was going on the other week how everyone has the basics in the uk...... Er OK then.

Seems ageism is that last permissible form of discrimination

I agree if this thread is anything to go by.

Plus lazy stereotyping and sweeping generalisations.

Classism is alive and well too believe me.

they've already targeted carers and the disabled so is it any surprise?

yet they keep getting voted in.

BTW Mr C, did you enjoy your (probably) free ticket for the Man City match (do you know many people cant afford to enjoy a live match, with your Chinese friend, taking selfies with the players?

enjoying all your hols and 'chiilaxing'? alright for some isn't it?

What's wrong is that people like my father don't want a bus pass or WFA but there isn't even a mechanism in place to return benefits paid out that are not needed.

Also, my fathers income is very high now while he works but in a couple of years he will have no income from working and will be living off investments. Yeah his house is paid for but with rates of 2-3% being considered good returns he will be doing well to not start spending capital.

As I have said before there are extremely few OAPs with an income above £50k a year from their pension. Most are living off pensions of less than £20k a year, which is taxable. At 70 it's very doable to live off that income but at 80 when they start struggling to walk to the bus and need to use a taxi that money doesn't go very far at all.

"What constitutes a wealthy pensioner?" I'm sure the government can work it out, as they worked out how they wanted to cut child benefit. For example; they decided that if one parent earned over a certain amount, they would not qualify and if you have over approx £23k, you have to pay for your own social care. See, it can be done!

I get fucked off that there are disabled older people living in poverty, yet people with £50k in the bank, no mortgage and a significant private pension could get a bloody winter fuel payment and free buss pass! I don't care if a keyboard warrior calls me ageist. I know I am not; my job involved supporting vulnerable older people who are mostly in dire financial situations. This country is slashing every budget and the older poor people will keep getting poorer but hey, as long as we don't means test prescriptions or bus passes, fuck 'em, eh? That is essentially what some of you are saying.

**over approx £23k in savings.

as long as we don't means test prescriptions

It isn't just pensioners that get free prescriptions.

Certain conditions you get free prescription for plus the pill.

Maybe those should be means tested too.

I get fucked off that there are disabled older people living in poverty, yet people with £50k in the bank, no mortgage and a significant private pension could get a bloody winter fuel payment and free buss pass! quite a lot of pensioners (including on this thread) agree with you. But it has been pointed out more than once there is no mechanism for refusing the winter fuel payment, although you can just fail to claim a bus pass.

saucony please don't include me in those who say 'fuck em'. I've made it clear that I don't make use of WFA, bus passes, concessions etc. (and by fortune so far of good health) have never had a free prescription.

Having a severely disabled relative whose struggling carers we have helped out enormously financially I think the vulnerable, whether young, middle aged or elderly, should be helped and that people like me should take our share of the cuts.

What I am objecting to is the way that some (NB I said some) posters shove all of us who have been lucky and hardworking enough to enjoy a relatively comfortable old age (at least until we too get to spend multi thousands for care) insult pensioners purely because they are pensioners . It is fucking annoying. And it is ageism. And to say it isn't is like racists saying "I'm not racist, some of my best friends are black" etc.

Means testing would be a good move

I agree with that the spiteful comments "oh they had it so easy back then" just reek of jealousy and not a genuine care for those who are vulnerable. You cannot compare; too many societal and cultural differences, some for the better and some for the worse.

I am extremely concerned about the cuts to the adult social care budget and NHS budget simply because it is older people who are one of the most vulnerable groups. We are getting older, living longer but not necessarily in good health. In an ideal world, we wouldn't means test the WFA or bus pass because means testing does mean that we get a 'squeezed middle'. We have to protect our most vulnerable and healthy older people with plenty of funds are fortunately, not I that group.

shut I do feel the same way about means testing prescriptions for all ages. GPs should not be prescribing low cost OTC drugs for people who can easily afford it.

My husband had a strange conversation with a GP a while back. He has to take aspirin every day. The GP keeps putting it on prescription. My husband says "don't bother" I'll get it OTC and a prescription costs the NHS so much more. It's a waste of NHS money". "Oh, but we have to, it's part of your medical records". So husband asks why it cannot go on the medical records with a note that he is taking non-prescription aspirin. That way, the records are correct but no prescription is issued. Apparently the system wouldn't allow for that.

So now he has the prescription, doesn't get it made up and just buys the aspirin. But of course it goes down as one of the umpteen million prescriptions being issued every year that the Govt wants GPs to reduce. You couldn't make it up.

I'm wary of the cuts. I do think the welfare budget needs to be cut but I would start by reducing housing benefit by restricting the market to residents paying taxes on worldwide income and not allow foreigners to 'invest' in BTL. I would apply VAT retrospectively to all homes purchased in the past decade by those not paying UK taxes on their worldwide income. If yo don't pay the property seized and goes into social housing by either being sold and the proceeds used to buy additional properties or rented out to those in need.

Yeah there you be some people in negative equity but as a society we would be far better off. I'm not living in the UK these days and try buying up swathes of Manhattan without paying taxes?!? It doesn't happen.

If they controlled the housing market I think we would see the welfare budget under control without having to even discuss cuts to the disabled, young families or elderly.

Certain conditions you get free prescription for plus the pill.

Lowering access to the pill is hardly likely to save the public purse....