To worry that the conservatives are going to target pensioners next

[Sjdorset]

Have anyone else noticed the anti pensioner stuff out this week? Firstly about getting rid of the essential tripple lock (2.5% so not a huge increase) and the talk that pensioners are supposedly getting more than working age people (why shouldn't they after all they have worked their entire life and don't have options available to increase their earnings).

I'm worried they maybe next on the target list, quite frankly I think this is a worrying trend building up.

www.express.co.uk/finance/retirement/445956/Fears-for-pensions-as-government-s-crucial-triple-lock-guarantee-faces-axe

babyboomers enjoyed CB regardles

But got no maternity/paternity leave etc.

You do seem to have an obsession with babyboomers.

I don't see why pensioners are exempt from means testing when all other groups, including vulnerable groups are...and I say this as someone who works with older people! Apparently it's too costly to means test certain benefits but fine for others. How does that work then?! If I can see some clear evidence, I'd accept that but I've yet to see it. You can say "oh there are increased costs that comes as you age" which I don't dispute but if we can means test for severely ill and disabled younger people, why not older?

It is ageist to suggest that with age, you automatically become a person in need. There are plenty out there who live full, healthy and independent lives. Equally, there are very poor pensioners who are living in very desperate and lonely situations. I'd rather see more funds directed towards them, than people who can afford cruises having a winter fuel payment. It's a disgrace that many of the older people I see have to decide between paying the mandatory contribution for their social care and buying food.

if we can means test for severely ill and disabled

If you mean PIP/DLA it isn't means tested. Neither is support group ESA.

I think it is very unlikely that they will tbh although reductions in the amount of money given to the over 65s would be very useful in respect of deficit reduction imo.

Out of work benefits are means tested for most disabled people. I'm not saying that disability benefits (Attendance Allowance) for older people should be means tested but the winter fuel payment and free bus pass?

I am aware that people in the ESA support group are exempt but it is a fight to get them awarded that, even when they clearly meet the criteria.

WanttobeSupermum I totally agree. Ive seen the NHS advert and in it they mention what the temp should be in their homes.
Adverts like this really need to be directed at some of the HAs.

Because the winter heat allowance is a bit pointless if the heating isnt working.

www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/willesden_pensioner_forced_to_live_with_no_hot_water_and_heating_for_seven_months_contracts_pneumonia_1_1389701

Still i guess in this case the WFA probably helped with the expense of her being in hospital.

Out of work benefits are means tested for most disabled people.

Which ones are as pp has said DLA/PIP or sg ESA

^^ DLA/PIP aren't out of work benefits. There is non means tested AA to assist with disability related needs for over 65s.

I do find it astonishing that some people would argue the toss for a winter fuel payment for a wealthy person, knowing that other budgets are being slashed. It's so bloody short sighted. Social care budgets are being decimated. This affects older people who are at incredible risk.

Another pensioner here, worked from university till retirement, higher rate taxpayer most of the time. I've heard many 'wealthy' pensioners say they would be quite willing to forgo bus pases and the WFA, and in fact do not claim their free bus pass (me included) but sadly there is no mechanism to refuse the WFA! Even my mum got it, albeit at a reduced rate, when she was in a nursing home.
And just as CBA is not given to higher rate taxpayers, similarly i think WFA and possibly free prescriptions could be removed from higher rate tax-payer pensioners. That should be cheaper to administer than means testing, as the data is already available from HMRC.
I'm not sure how that would help young people buy a property in our ridiculously overheated housing market, though. As an aside, for those who may not know and to show that it wasn't all that great in the good old days, mortgages were effectively rationed in the 50s/60s by the building societies. I recall people queuing, sometimes overnight, outside BS offices at the start of every month for when they released that month's quota of mortgages.

The past is a different country. They did things differently then.

In the 70's women were castigated and guilt tripped about working, especially if they were mothers. Statistics were trotted out about juvenile delinquency and mothers working outside the home. If they weren't mothers, they were taking work away from men. And where were all these jobs, anyway?

At least the state protected their pensions by providing Home Responsibility Protection for a stay-at-home parent up till their youngest child was 16. Without this I would be up shit creek without a pension unless I had paid voluntary contributions.

Things are so different now. When I read about younger people's lives, they seem so rushed and stressed and not what I would wish their lives to be, really

• not quite up shit creek - I could claim Pension Credit

And then there was the 15 pct mortgage interest rate.
(Am watching the Small Faces, Moody Blues and Bonzo Dog Doo-Da Band on BBC3 at the moment, seems most of them are no longer with us, BTW. We baby boomers partied hard and are paying the price, it's possible that the 70+ pensioners will be the longest lived! )

wannabesupermum your Dad is taking WFA because it is paid automatically. There are no forms to fill in.

But don't forget, interest rates might've been 15% but 15% on a mortgage of £30k is far far less money than 3% on a Mortgage of £200k. They were still better off than we are.

But don't forget, interest rates might've been 15% but 15% on a mortgage of £30k is far far less money than 3% on a Mortgage of £200k. They were still better off than we are.

Money and wages were different then too.

£30k was a lot of money.

My parents were in what was thought of as good professional jobs and really struggled.

They were different but 30k then still isn't equivilant to £200k now. No one can seriously argue that housing was as unaffordable then as it is now.

No one can seriously argue that housing was as unaffordable then as it is now.

For many it was though.

My parents sat on Orange boxes for months because they couldn't afford furniture. They had no fridge until they had been there for 6 months and my grand parents gave them a second hand one.

People were still displaced after the war. Rationing was still on.

The times were different. I don't think you can compare the two.

There were who People couldn't afford housing then and there are people who can't afford it now. You can't make a population decision about affordability based on a few people over stretching themselves

Then you and your pals clearly aren't part of the group being discussed grimbletart.

And funinthesun, most pensioners now weren't adults during the displacement and rationing you mention in the postwar years. Rationing finished in 1954. You'd need to be well into your 80s to have had more than a year or two of that as an adult, and of course plenty of those who are now in their 80s were shielded from it anyway because they were still living at home during those years (my 81 year old gran, for example). The generation who were dealing with those privations are mostly no longer with us. Whereas plenty of those who claim pensions now were infants when rationing ended.

Then you and your pals clearly aren't part of the group being discussed grimbletart.

OK, I can accept that. Can you clarify which group it is that is being discussed?

You'll see that a few posts up, people were talking about female pensioners who hadn't held a job or only done so for a short period. See posts from want2b and patrick. There was a discussion about whether this had happened because they'd been child rearing. Clearly, women who held jobs for all or most of their working age lives don't fall into that group.