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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To worry that the conservatives are going to target pensioners next

289 replies

Sjdorset · 23/10/2015 06:18

Have anyone else noticed the anti pensioner stuff out this week? Firstly about getting rid of the essential tripple lock (2.5% so not a huge increase) and the talk that pensioners are supposedly getting more than working age people (why shouldn't they after all they have worked their entire life and don't have options available to increase their earnings).

I'm worried they maybe next on the target list, quite frankly I think this is a worrying trend building up.

www.express.co.uk/finance/retirement/445956/Fears-for-pensions-as-government-s-crucial-triple-lock-guarantee-faces-axe

OP posts:
TheXxed · 25/10/2015 09:02

I cant say I feel much sympathy when pensioners were happily voting for a Tory govt which has shafted young, poor and disabled people.

I also don't want this to turn into a race to the bottom.

Flashbangandgone · 25/10/2015 09:06

My pensioner friend told me last week he bought his first house with 8 weeks wages. 15k.

Not many earn £15k in 8 weeks now... Stretches credulity to believe a labourer in the 1970s would have, even if they had absurdly generous overtime arrangements.

ComposHatComesBack · 25/10/2015 09:09

The university thing is a red herring, yes fewer of them went to university, but a number of jobs that are now degree-level entry weren't when the baby boomers came of age. It was also far easier to get a secure job with prospects of good pay, advancement and a pension by leaving school at 16 or 18 than it is now. Yes Generation X/Yers have had more/longer education but not necessarily better outcomes or more fulfilling and prosperous working lives.

LarrytheCucumber · 25/10/2015 09:56

My pensioner friend told me last week he bought his first house with 8 weeks wages. 15k.
The average wage for a man in 1973 was £40.93 so I am not sure how he managed to earn so much.

Ricardian · 25/10/2015 10:09

My pensioner friend told me last week he bought his first house with 8 weeks wages. 15k.

So when he was buying his first house he was earning £97500 per year, when houses were £15k? Rich man.

Flashbangandgone · 25/10/2015 10:20

So when he was buying his first house he was earning £97500 per year, when houses were £15k? Rich man.

If I was earning that kind of money I wouldn't be buying a £15k house!

Jackmelad · 25/10/2015 10:26

I'm not a pensioner. Nowhere near in fact. I just have a strong belief that we need to ensure that the most vulnerable in society are protected, including the old, disabled and children.

You making your post personal is offensive wash.

saucony · 25/10/2015 10:32

"I'm not a pensioner. Nowhere near in fact. I just have a strong belief that we need to ensure that the most vulnerable in society are protected, including the old, disabled and children."

I agree with you but avoiding means testing certain benefits isn't going to help protect the most vulnerable. We cannot keep spending the way we do without impacting on services. Universal benefits are, sadly, no longer viable.

tobysmum77 · 25/10/2015 10:37

I'm not a pensioner. Nowhere near in fact. I just have a strong belief that we need to ensure that the most vulnerable in society are protected, including the old, disabled and children.

I think the point is that a lot of pensioners are neither 'old' or 'vulnerable'.

Jackmelad · 25/10/2015 10:47

Ive not commented about means testing benefits for anyone. The cuts that are made today may affect everyone at some point in the future.

I think there are better ways of making cuts rather than hitting the most vulnerable...tax evasion, foreign aid, MPs benefits and recent startling pay increase.

Ricardian · 25/10/2015 11:55

I think there are better ways of making cuts rather than hitting the most vulnerable...tax evasion, foreign aid, MPs benefits and recent startling pay increase.

There are 650 MPs. Let's suppose, for the same of argument, that they cost a million pounds each per year (which they don't, nothing like). That's £10 per year per UK resident, or 20p per week. What's you're proposal? Have MPs as volunteers and pay them nothing (ie, hand government over to the rich?) OK, that's 20p per person per week we're all better off. Don't spend it all at once. In reality, they cost a fraction of that and the potential savings are a fraction of that: my guess would be about 4p per week. Can you still get a Fruit Salad chew for 4p?

Foreign Aid? £12bn, so £184 each per year. Now we're getting somewhere: three quid a week. I'm assuming you're OK with cutting foreign aid to zero, so that means that next time there's a famine in Ethiopia we shrug our shoulders?

Tax Evasion? Harder to put a figure on, but also a great deal harder to deal with. How much to you think you'll be able to recover, bearing in mind that the HMRC isn't staffed by idiots and they're doing the best they can?

Ricardian · 25/10/2015 11:56

What's you're proposal?

What's your proposal, of course.

Jackmelad · 25/10/2015 12:05

You are making massive assumptions on the little I have posted on this thread Ricardian and I am certainly not going to get drawn in.

Mistigri · 25/10/2015 12:13

Ricardian many people, me included, don't have a problem with saving money per se, if they are sensibly targeted, based on good evidence, with adequate safeguards, and especially if they aim to improve efficiency. If you are spending other people's money, then the onus is in you to do so honestly and efficiently.

I hate this dichotomy that has been set up, that suggests that if you are in favour of having functioning state services that you are also in favour of inefficiency and waste and corruption.

The problem with the most recent round of cuts (to tax credits notably) is that they don't do what they say on the tin - increase the incentive to work. And if they end up being watered down, as may well be the case, they will be watered down with concessions that will be a less efficient way of ensuring that poorly paid workers have an adequate standard of living than simply paying tax credits in the first place (raising the NI threshold would be very expensive, and the benefit of doing so would go very largely to people who don't need the extra money - raising the tax threshold has the same effect).

In the same way, I don't personally have a problem with clawing some money back from pensioners, who now account for a very large percentage of "welfare" spending - as long as the pensioners who lose out are not those in the bottom half of the income distribution, and as long as the costs of any changes don't outweigh the benefits.

Washediris · 25/10/2015 13:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Flashbangandgone · 25/10/2015 13:11

I think there are better ways of making cuts rather than hitting the most vulnerable

That's an ageist comment... It's insulting to those over 65 to assume they are all vulnerable. There are vulnerable pensioners of course - No one on this thread is suggesting these are not provided for!

I don't get why some are so ideologically supportive of benefits that they end up supporting their position by demeaning those they supposedly support!

Flashbangandgone · 25/10/2015 13:14

Ps. My previous comment refers to Jackmelad's earlier post.

BeckerLleytonNever · 25/10/2015 17:22

and BTW us fulltime carers and disabled cant even have a pension, or a pension plan, wtfs going to happen to us when/if we get old?

oh, but the gov are hoping we'll all die early of our disabilities anyway, they don't care .

(not trying to derail thread btw, Im just saying Ill be old maybe one day, and if this is happening now, what the hells the future got to hold?)

RhodaBull · 25/10/2015 17:38

Sort of a wild idea, but how about a new law saying you get a pension and pensioner freebies for 15 years max. If you are still very much alive after that, you either live off savings/downsize, or you move in with relatives/go into basic state accommodation. You will not go into the same nursing home as people who are paying themselves. Cries of "workhouse!" I hear, but if people know the score, then most will be able to cut their cloth accordingly.

Something radical has to be done. You can't be paying pensions to people who are likely now to live to 120. The country will be crippled. Fil has been drawing a fine public sector pension and old age pension for 33 years.

grimbletart · 25/10/2015 17:46

Alternatively of course we could all receive a gun and a bullet for our 80th birthday so we stop cluttering the place up.

saucony · 25/10/2015 17:47

"I think there are better ways of making cuts rather than hitting the most vulnerable...tax evasion, foreign aid, MPs benefits and recent startling pay increase."

Yes yes but not all pensioners are vulnerable. Many are healthy, wealthy, happy with good support networks and active social lives. I don't think losing a bus pass (for example) would be such a hardship for the secure group.

Shutthatdoor · 25/10/2015 17:49

Sort of a wild idea

Wild doesn't even come close Hmm

suzannecaravaggio · 25/10/2015 20:15

Alternatively of course we could all receive a gun and a bullet for our 80th birthday so we stop cluttering the place up
A euthanasia pill and a body bag would be tidier

Pangurban1 · 25/10/2015 22:45

Wrt the 15 grand house. Do you mean the house was 15 grand and the man put the deposit for it together in 8 weeks?

swisscheesetony · 26/10/2015 07:22

Pangurban - I'm guessing this was the 80s because 1) he flitted around before settling down and 2) he hails from Doncaster, not Knightsbridge.

15k bought the house outright.

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