Boss has asked me to come in on my maternity leave

[sarah00001]

Hi, I received an email from my boss asking me to come in for a couple of hours on my maternity leave, using one of my keeping in touch (KIT) days for my appraisal. I was on sick leave before my maternity leave and missed my appraisal. I am a single mum and have a 4 month old daughter. I don't have anyone who could look after her, I have no family in the area and am not on very good terms with my baby's father. His family have offered no support, so I couldn't ask them to look after her. I replied to my boss saying I could come in, but would need to bring along my baby. She responded by saying that she would like that I arranged for a babysitter to look after my daughter.

I really do have noone I could ask to look after her. I also wouldn't feel comfortable asking a stranger to look after her as I feel she is too young. She is also teething at the moment and very much needs her mum.

Would it be unreasonable for me to say I can only come in if I can bring my daughter, or is my boss right in saying I should find a babysitter?

Please could you let me know your thoughts as I really don't know what to do.

Thank you

Sarah

Say you can do a call if you can't take the baby. She's being unnecessarily tricky. Equally say you can't do it. Kit days aren't compulsory and an appraisal when you haven't been there for 4 months and won't be for 8(?) months is fairly pointless.

What the hell? Do posters really think that mothers should "show flexibility" on maternity leave? - in fact, in the early months of maternity leave?

Realistically I can see how it might reflect badly on you if you don't, if your boss is a certain sort of git, but it absolutely legally and ethically should NOT, and I am sad to see people standing up for this attitude on mumsnet.

I went to a meeting at work with my 4mo when my mat. cover resigned and they asked me to handover for a day to the new one. they were incredibly grateful that I did this because I could have just said it was not convenient. And I really understand that the OP doesn't feel able to leave a baby that small with anyone else yet.

Sometimes I see people on mn saying about childcare "what about a neighbour? what about your mum? What about a mummy friend?" and they don't seem to grasp that for some people, there just isn't anyone they can ask / they can trust. I was that person when we moved house. All my friends were in another city and all my family were 250 miles away. I have loads of friends and acquaintances now but in the first little while I literally had no one and even now, although I know people I'd happily leave one of my infant school kids with, I'd only leave a tiny baby with her dad or my mum or my sister.

If I were feeling badass and this request were made of me I'd say "well a day without the baby is trickier. A child this young needs a qualified nanny and is still breastfeeding (bottle refuser). Agency day rates for a nanny to accompany me to town by taxi and remain nearby will be ££££££ for the day. My day rate for my optional KIT day is ££."

If they baulk at this then they can

• wait for the end of mat leave to do your appraisal
• allow you to bring the baby

It sounds to me like the HR procedures system is flashing some kind of red light that your appraisal isn't in the system and it's like some awful alarm going off and your boss is feeling the need to cover her own arse over this for not fitting it in before. Frankly, not your problem.

I think it's very odd indeed to do an appraisal while someone is on maternity leave.

It's also normal where I have worked to bring young babies in for KIT days and for them to be wheeled around in their prams by broody colleagues while mum does whatever she has to do.

No terra, at 4 months it was impossible to leave DD. She fed every 1-2 hours and was (and I assume still is) a complete expressed milk refuser. I literally could not leave her.

I had DS1 in plenty of meetings when he was this age (freelance - had to speak to clients) - never had any issues.

And now, if they're off sick or on holiday then they'll be in the background of conference calls - again, no-one bats an eyelid - perhaps it helps that almost everyone I work with is a parent - oh, and they're all competent, good people, who want to work with me.

What is this 'goodwill' that new mothers have to show whilst being legally off work on maternity leave? If anything the employer could show some goodwill by respecting the OP's situation and backing the fuck off.

My boss did this on my first maternity leave. Asked me to come in for complete spurious reasons.

I realise now it was just a power trip for him and he actually wantedto ruin my maternity leave much the same way he ruined the months I was pregnant with DC1 by being a complete and utter shit.

I didn't go in at all during my maternity leave and took voluntary redundancy when the business was restructured. I knew it wouldn't get any better if I went back.

I was asked by my line manager (NHS) to go into work on maternity leave and use my KIT days to do my mandatory training so that it was up to date for my appraisal when I returned to work. I categorically told him that would not be happening. In fact afterwards I was cross with myself for even responding to the email. I did eventually do half a KIT day to catch up with my team members about what had been going on during my leave (I manage a caseload of patients and wanted to be clued up on how they all were). I only did half a day and it took four bloody months to get paid for it as HR didn't seem to have a clue about how to process KIT days to payroll. You are under no obligation to do them OP.

It seems that many people on here have appraisals to just be told "well done" or "work harder"... Does no-one else view them as an opportunity to discuss future training and development needs for themselves, discuss the progress of the company and its vision for the future & how that would affect the person being appraised? Appraisals can be useful for both parties, but unless OP is planning to go back next month, having one now is a waste of time (unless a huge change or restructure is imminent)

I have a 12 month old and have just returned to work. I came into work 10 times during my maternity leave, the first being when my baby was 2 months old. DS is still breastfed and was a hungry bottle refuser. I found KIT days useful and they have helped me settle back into work seamlessly.

However. I have help. I have a lovely DH who used his leave to sit outside my meeting room on the first KIT. I have a lovely DM who did the same on the 2nd and 3rd meetings. I have a nursery opposite my place of work who agreed that my settling in sessions coincided with KIT sessions and I have a very understanding boss. KIT days can be very useful, they were for me anyway, but only in the right circumstances. Often my KIT days were 2 hours-half a day long.

My DM loved my KIT sessions, I've absolutely loved my mat leave and didn't leave my DS once other than those KIT sessions. DM enjoyed them as the only opportunity to have DS to herself.

Does no-one else view them as an opportunity to discuss future training and development needs for themselves, discuss the progress of the company and its vision for the future & how that would affect the person being appraised?

My company (a very large bank) doesn't give a shit what I think about it's progress, vision for the future or how it affects me. As far as training and development is concerned, this wouldn't be any where near my list of priorities while on mat leave.

An appraisal can and should be done over the phone in these circumstances.

I couldn't have left my ebf 4 month old for a "couple of hours" without becoming very uncomfortable. She fed so often at that age that leaving her anywhere just wasn't an option.

I really think there can be a big gap in understanding between those who never ff at all and those who introduced some formula in the first few months. I am very pro-breastfeeding and I don't regret it but my experience of having young babies was that they were exhaustingly inseparable from me. I was able to express with the first one and dp took her out once a week for a few hours without me. With the second one I didn't seem to get around to expressing very often and she was just attached to me.

I went to a wedding with a woman who had a baby who was 3 months old and ff from birth. He was staying with his grandmother for the weekend (he spent a night there every week anyway so it was home from home for him.) She and her husband had taken a room in a nice hotel near the wedding and were having a lovely weekend. I couldn't believe she had a baby, she looked so great. So relaxed, so composed, so herself. She was having an experience 3 months after birth that I didn't get near till 9 or 10 months later.

The ff bit is part of the difference, the other part was the mother who was always a big part of the baby's day to day life (and one night a week).

My dcs never had formula.
Am I an idiot?

Just explain that you feel uncomfortable leaving your baby with anyone else while he/she is so young. Explain you will be happier doing it when the baby is older but not yet. Reiterate you can either come in for an hour or two with the baby now, or else wait until later. Apologise for being awkward. She has no right to force you to come in and leave your baby, she can't do that and is being unreasonable to ask you. There are many people who would find it very difficult leaving their baby at that age, I wouldn't have been happy doing it even for an hour.

Magick, I know exactly what you mean about ff and breastfed. I spent one growth spurt day feeding for 15 hours in one day! That said, I still managed 10 KIT days, but as I've said before-I had lots of help.

I have still never left my DS overnight as he feeds to sleep in the night and gave often wondered if I had bottle fed from the start, maybe I would have a baby that sleeps through the night by now.

You aren't an idiot. Bf, and everything associated with it - night feeds, feeding to sleep, Velcro babies - is the biological norm. Someone who has only ff may find it hard to understand the difference. I ff one baby and ebf the other, the way they feed, sleep and find comfort was completely different from each other.

Totally ridiculous. The appraisal is utterly pointless at this juncture, and why should the OP be expected to leave a baby of breastfeeding age? Or to pay for someone else to look after it?!

If it's a KIT day and you're being paid, it unreasonable to expect that you an have your daughter with you.

However, you don't have to make use of KIT days so she can't force you.

You can take a whole year off and have no contact, other than advising them when you return to work date is, if that's what you wanted.

thanks Lovely and Looking.
I'm so glad I had mn when mine were babies because most people don't know these things!
I had counselling when dd2 was tiny (on a waiting list since pregnancy) and was kind of ... appalled but also humiliated when the counsellor said I couldn't do it with the baby.
She was asleep in a sling, you could barely tell she was there, I just looked fat (fatter). It was a referral by the perinatal team. I was a bit spoilt by mn because I just thought... don't you know you don't just leave 3 week old breastfed babies in Smaland at Ikea or something? Check them in like a coat at Turnmills? (The guy was about 20 and no, he had no idea)

"Next time you will have to find childcare" he said. "we don't allow children in the counselling sessions."

I agreed to this like an idiot and went away and gave it serious thought. My older dd had a lovely childminder and I seriously tried to think about standing to leave her there for 3 or 4 hours. But it was just unthinkable.

I sent an email pulling out of the counselling process because you can't leave tiny breastfed babies.

I got a slightly embarrassed reply saying his boss had had a word and actually a newborn baby would be fine. (was the boss a woman? A mother?)

We attempted the counselling but it was exhausting because I had to explain everything about my life and he still didn't get it. (Like I said. I was spoilt by mn and I just didn't understand how a person could understand so little about life with a baby, or the killer toddler + baby combo.)

the piece de resistance was "well let's look at your sleep diary. Sometimes people feel tired when actually they are sleeping too much."

I am sure that is a standard part of the process but it should be illegal to say that to a woman with a two year old and newborn

Sorry about the epic derail.

OP - any update?

Also wanted to say the norm where I work is for baby to come in for KIT days. Meetings will be informal, and a lot of chat with close team members will probably take place in the first aid room or in a corner of the canteen while mum feeds. For more important meetings colleagues might look after baby.

This is a very large corporate law firm btw!

Magick

HOW can people be that unaware?!?!

Surely there's no need to do an appraisal until nearer your return to work date. Anything for training etc can still be implemented and they can always earmark budget for training now without the firm arrangements if that's why they're keen.

At 4 months I was still ebf and apart from the evening, never away from dd for more than a couple of hours when she was with DH.

My company (a very large bank) doesn't give a shit what I think about it's progress, vision for the future or how it affects me.
No, I don't expect any company would give a shit what we thought, but why wouldn't you want to take on some responsibility for keeping yourself in the loop about what is going on in your company, after all, it is your career you're shaping? The review process is meant to be a two way street but many people seem to regard it as an inconvenience, waste of time or something just for the employers benefit.
As I said previously, prob not much benefit for OP at this time though

It is no wonder employers get fed up with women on maternity leave with some of the attitudes shown here.

Yes. Women on ML with tiny babies not wanting to leave them to come in for totally pointless appraisals is clearly one of the key reasons for the existence of maternity relates discrimination today. You've nailed it there, lulujakey. Even though most bosses are probably not stupid enough to want someone who hasn't been in for months and won't be back for months to come in to have their performance assessed anyway.

Whatever the emotional and practical problems with leaving a baby with a childminder - how do you find one? The chances of a good childminder just happening to have the right hours free for a one-off are pretty much nil.

I'd put a reply in email saying that it isn't possible to do this, that KIT days will need to be leading up to return when childcare could be put in place, and that you are confident the company will in no way make the mistake of seeing this in a negative light as KIT days are not compulsory and they surely wouldn't discriminate against a woman on maternity leave.