Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Mortgage dispute dp/me

399 replies

Haribogirl · 16/10/2015 11:37

Dp and I took bought property 13 years ago for £160.000
I put deposit down of 80.000 he got mortgage for his 80.000( with both names on it, as he would of been able to get this much on his own)

So 13 years on and he's had a brain wave, he now decided that because of the interested he's had to pay for getting the mortgage that he's actually paying more than me!!
My argument is he must of known that interest was added in the first place and it's not up to me to now start paying it.

He won't it so that
He as added his mortgage payments up for the last 13 years which amount to £79400.
So when he reaches 80k(same as I put in at beginning) he then wants me to start paying half the mortgage.
Also at the beginning in solicitors, solicitor advised me to make a deed of trust to guard my 80k in the event of anything happening in the future.

He doesn't agree with this now! As he realised that in event off I would get this and half the equity we make, he thinks all off a sudden I'm ripping him off.

This is only in the event off!! Which I have mentioned.

I feel I've just protected myself as advised, he now thinks I'm ripping him off

OP posts:
Original poster
Haribogirl · 17/10/2015 11:49

Gosh never did I ever think I'd get this response.... Thank you so much ladies I'm taking all your comments on board

Re
Outtogetyou, I agree. It is also important that if he does repay the mortgage and she wants to go to 5050 that they are tenants in common at 50:50 and not joint tenants, whereby he would inherit the whole house if she

We are tenants in common! Why would DP inherit my half if I left it in will to my son after his death/OW. I'm I missing something here?

OP posts:
bedraggledmumoftwo · 17/10/2015 11:53

Of course I missed out the fourth scenario, the one the dp was rooting for in the op, whereby op pays off half the remaining mortgage AND gives up the DOT. This would be madness, as OP would only get back £107k, while dp would have 177k and be laughing all the way to the bank.

bedraggledmumoftwo · 17/10/2015 11:56

No, you aren't missing something, what I meant is that you are tenants in common with an unequal split in your favour. If he paid the mortgage off in full and you wanted to move to equal shares you could do so as joint tenants, where you both own the whole house so if you die he gets it all, or as tenants in common like now, but specific as 50:50 split, which would mean you could leave your half to whoever you like, as could he.

bedraggledmumoftwo · 17/10/2015 12:03

Married couples are usually joint tenants, but that involves a level of trust that doesn't seem appropriate here!

If you think he is playing away, likely to be trying to con you out of your money before he splits for OW then you should tackle that head on now, without doing anything to the DOT. If he confesses he is going then you have the legal protection of the DOT, and get a better outcome, while he should also feel that he wins to a degree, as he will get you to pay half the remaining mortgage (through house proceeds) like he wanted, so it is not as bad a result as the original agreement for him. Happy medium for both if he is leaving.

Grazia1984 · 17/10/2015 12:06

I want to know more facts. They are tenants in common so is there also a document which sets out the shares they each have or is that percentage share just shown at the Land Registry?

Bearbehind · 17/10/2015 12:14

you can argue the whys and wherefores of this endlessly- the fact is, he's moved the goal posts and sounds a thoroughly selfish person, particularly the whole 'don't speak to me' bollocks.

However, if I've read this correctly, you are both retired- why on earth are you having a 'yours and mine' conversation at your time of life?

If you plan on staying together and have limited incomes which have no prospect of changing, why wouldn't you pool your resources anyway?

bedraggledmumoftwo · 17/10/2015 12:18

Bearbehind, it sounds like dp has been behaving suspiciously and might be playing away- op had another thread about his behaviour that was linked to earlier.

Also, op has a dc that is not her dps, so she wants to protect his inheritance.

Bearbehind · 17/10/2015 12:34

In that case, sod working out how to pay off the mortgage, I'd be planning my exit strategy.

It makes a lot of sense given his sudden change of position on this.

bedraggledmumoftwo · 17/10/2015 12:51

Yes exactly. I'd say the op should confront him on their future before worrying about house/ mortgage. There is a lot of money at stake here, the range of values I calculated showed him moving £58k from the op to him if she complied with his demands.

This is what op and dp could potentially leave the relationship with based on immediate sale at £250k and his £70k lump sums

£165k op:£119k dp, based on original arrangement in ops favour with DP paying off mortgage.
£147k op: 137k dp with DOT
£125k op:£159k dp 5050 after he pays mortgage.
£107k op:£177k dp his new suggestion of no DOT and her paying half mortgage.

Cunning and devious indeed (him) given his new suggested arrangement nets him £58k compared to the old (admittedly unfair in the ops favour) arrangement!

I think the fairest is somewhere I the middle, but I am not sure if op wants to worry about fairness if it is going to go sour anyway!

BlueJug · 17/10/2015 12:51

of course you shouldn't pay. You put £80k in each. 50/50. you own it 50/50. He borrowed his portion. you didn't.

If you split a £50 meal out with a friend £25 each and you paid cash and she paid on a credit card you wouldn't expect her to get you to pay the interest on her card would you?

Original poster
Haribogirl · 17/10/2015 14:26

The DOF states in the event off
Me... I get 80k back then it's split 50/50

I don't know for the life of me why he's gone like this I'd say over the last 12/18 mths things are changing(don't think he likes the thought of sharing his money)
At 58, he 61 we should be enjoying ourselves at this time off life, but the spanners hes throwing in the works now are pushing me the other way and making me think WTF am I with somebody who gone selfish and trying to manipulate me.

Another thing he also throws in my face is that he as brought MY son up for the last 13 years!! Because now he's 26 and still at home(he pays keep, which he made sure he got half) subsidising him because son doesn't pay like he would if he rented a flat.

I've had the chat of OW, he says no.

I think it's turned into about money now!

I need to get a clear head,spend some time going over what's been pointed out to me and get my pen and paper out.
Write down what I need to show him, and if he doesn't like it tough.

Thank you all for your input, it's invaluable to me without it I may have sold myself down the river!! Xx

OP posts:
Grazia1984 · 17/10/2015 14:45

DoF? That must mean some kind of deed from when you bought the house. That's really good if you've already got in writing a binding clear agreement over this - no need to vary it at all. It says what it says. If he hadn't wanted that deal he could have refused to get involved on that basis.

Hopefully that deed covers where either of you wants to sell or to buy the other out so that is clear if that were to occur.
In fact if there is more equity than £80k in the property now you might want to consider a remortgage, release the whole £80k and let your son use that to buy his own place to save inheritance tax etc later and then go on to a straight 50/50 basis with your partner.

fastdaytears · 17/10/2015 14:46

The OP definitely had a declaration of trust signed at the time it's just now her not so DP has had a rethink and wants to change it because the nasty bank charged him interest on his mortgage.

OP stand your ground and also Wine

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 17/10/2015 15:13

bedraggled, I'm not sure why you keep adding his payouts into the mix. They don't have any bearing on what is fair regarding the house.

Given what he is saying and the other thread from the OP it does sound like the relationship might be ending. To me though that doesn't mean she should take as much as she can, even if that would be legal. I think the right thing to do is say that if he pays the mortgage off, they get rid of the DoT and go 50/50. If he doesn't want to do that, then it is the time to say sod him.

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 17/10/2015 15:18

I should add thought that that does assume everything else has been even over the course of the relationship. If he has been using the mortgage as a reason for the OP to pay for more expenses/holidays etc then I would be far more inclined to leave the current arrangement as is.

BYOSnowman · 17/10/2015 15:34

Whilst your name is still on the mortgage I would keep the dot in place invade he defaults etc and they go after you

If he agrees to the mortgage being in his name then I would get rid of the dot as you will oath have put half and half in

The house was bought outright - the interest is not the cost of buying the house it is the cost of servicing a loan used to buy the house. The amount that has been paid off is irrelevant to the capital sums put in at the start (ie 50/50)

The complicating factor is that the mortgage in joint names and I would sort that asap

suzannecaravaggio · 17/10/2015 16:13

Another thing he also throws in my face is that he as brought MY son up for the last 13 years!! Because now he's 26 and still at home(he pays keep, which he made sure he got half) subsidising him because son doesn't pay like he would if he rented a flat

it sounds as if he is doing an audit of your lives together, weighing and scoring everything trying to work out if he gave more than he got

I think in your position I'd just humour him and not argue with him but covertly take advice and make sure I got the best deal possible for me and my child.

If he resents your son he may well want to try and recoup some of the time/money that he has invested in the lad by finding a way to make sure you cant leave him a share of the propery

NameChange30 · 17/10/2015 16:20

His attitude gets worse and worse. If my long-term partner started talking to me like this I would certainly not be inclined to start paying the mortgage he promised to pay, or to sign over £40k (ie by removing the deed of trust). I'd tell him to fuck off.

bedraggledmumoftwo · 17/10/2015 16:30

What'sthatcoming. The reason his payouts are relevant is that he has the cash now to pay the rest of the mortgage off as a lump sum. I included them in my scenarios for the sake of consistency/comparability. In some scenarios he would get more out of the house as a direct result of spending £36k to pay off mortgage. In others the mortgage comes out of the sale proceeds before it is divvied up, so that would skew the picture, hence I included his total assets to make the total result comparable

QuintShhhhhh · 17/10/2015 16:32

Me... I get 80k back then it's split 50/50

I see where he is coming from now. You get 80k plus half the remaining value. He only gets half the remaining value, yet he has paid in 80k and still more to pay. When he has finished paying off, he has paid more than 140k, yet gets only half of the profit after your 80k has been deducted. If the house is 260, then he has paid 140k including interest. You have paid 80k, You get back 130 plus 80 k, and he gets back 50k from the 140k he spent.

Legally, you may be correct, but morally? Is it fair that you get back 210k and he 50 k if you sell?

Would you have been able to buy a 160k house with your 80k 13 years ago?

He would be utterly bonkers to put his entire severance pay and insurance lump sums in to the mortgage, as he would still only get 50% of house value minus YOUR 80k back!

He needs to protect his interest and keep these lump sums, as if you split, he will need them to buy himself a properly in his old age and retirement!

Having pondered this, I think you may be the grabby one....

BYOSnowman · 17/10/2015 16:34

The amount of interest he pays is irrelevant

The fact op is on the mortgage is the complicating factor in all this

suzannecaravaggio · 17/10/2015 16:34

well at least this bloke is easy to read, you've had warning OP to get your ducks in a row and make sure that you are protected!
dont argue, smile and nod to his face, but quietly get your affairs in order

make sure you know exactly whats what

but keep your powder dry for if/when you need it

QuintShhhhhh · 17/10/2015 16:36

My mental maths are not strong, so if anybody get different numbers out, I would not be surprised, but he is still in a much worse position than you.

Especialy if you plan to leave YOUR part of the house to your son, your dp would be out of his arse and homeless if your son decides to sell!

I think your dp has suddenly realized how disadvantages he is in his home, and how he has spent all these years paying down a mortgage that leaves him with a very small stake in his home, and a step son that can oust him any time.

BojackHorseman · 17/10/2015 16:40

I think your DP has a point.

suzannecaravaggio · 17/10/2015 16:41

if you plan to leave YOUR part of the house to your son, your dp would be out of his arse and homeless if your son decides to sell

no, it can be (and commonly is) done in such a way that the partner can live there for the rest of his life and the son only gets his share when the partner dies