AIBU to tell you it is not illegal to take your child out of school to go on holiday

[Pseudonym99]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-34543101

What odd thinking some have, that they feel many have a choice over the state educating children.

On what holidays lweji?

[Wry aside related to Lweji - teaching about Egypt.

Child A (9): Oh, I went on holiday to Egypt!

Teacher: Amazing! What can you tell us about it?

Child B: Oh, the beach was just like the ones I've been to before. The hotel beds had blue covers on.]

You're not making assumptions about the holiday destinations of people who choose to take their kids out of school in term time are you?

Even in the early years there's a move away from a spiral curriculum with lots of objectives over a week but repeated several times a year towards teaching fewer objectives over a week but only covering it once. That might start to have more of an impact on how easy it is for some children to catch up.

And on a lighter note, wasn't there a ski holiday company who offered to pay parents' fines for them if they booked a holiday with them in January? Or is that an urban myth?

Teacherwith2kids
I'm saying kids would value going somewhere on holiday, not everyone can afford to go actually on holiday during half and end term.
So inevitably they sit t home, bored and the parents have to struggle to find child care etc.

I've said many times that every school should run Monday to Friday every week. Then the kids could have a set number of days they could use as holidays, just like your average worker. They book 2 weeks off when they need them, teachers can then assign them work to take. The teachers would also get 15 days to book when they want, plenty of notice o cover can be arranged.

Rafa, I agree - much more of a 'linear' approach but with much greater depth and focus at the first point of teaching so that we move on once the children have really 'got it' ... but equally don't come back to it again

Well, caitlin

Holidays that aren't term time by parents who think it's OK to take children from class to go on holiday.
Do they actually learn anything about another language, the history of the country, geology, geography or the environment in that country? Or will they settle on the beach, eat as much food they are already used to, continue to speak English, visit a few amusement areas and go home?
How many provide the school with the learning opportunities and, say, a report that will show how much the child benefited learning wise?

caitlin, no, I am making a statement about the holiday destinations (term time or otherwise) of the classes that I have taught recently in my very MC school.

I wonder if they should just say categorically that the HT has discretion for up to a week. They keep saying that the HT can allow absence but HTs are taking a narrow view of “exceptional circumstances” which is leading to silly results. For me exceptional circumstances is not “I can’t afford a 2 week Mark Warner break in August” but heads should use their noddle if someone has a funeral or wedding or genuinely can’t get leave at any time during the 13 weeks state school holidays.

Be a bit easier going on the people who want the odd day off. It’s a bit silly to refuse a half day on the last day of term for example especially as a lot of schools close early anyway. But I would continue to say no to parents who want to take their kids out for two weeks - it sends the wrong message about education and is very disruptive, not just for that child but other children as well.

the story in the OP is about a trip to Florida. Yep, big cultural and educational opportunities there that cannot possibly be accessed at any other time and cannot wait until the child is finished at school...

lweji It's a holiday. That means different things to different people. Just because they don't come back speaking fluent Spanish doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to go. As I said before, it might just be the opportunity to spend some family time together. You come across as very judgemental about people's personal family decisions.

specialsubject Yes the story in the OP is about a 6 year old missing a week of school and the rest of her attendance had been fine. I think in those circumstances the destination is irrelevant.

Yes, and you might have noticed I was replying specifically to someone who mentioned the educational value. On one.

And another on the need for the children to rest from school. Do they, really, btw?

"I'm saying kids would value going somewhere on holiday"

Is that a want? Or a need?

Your first post seemed to imply that children suffered so much under the relentlessness of the curriculum that they need more breaks than the holidays and weekends provide. You are now saying that there are plenty of breaks but these aren't 'valuable' enough to children for them to count?

It has been really interesting transferring from a school with a lot of children from families in difficult circumstances, to a very MC one. In the former, getting to spend a week somewhere away in the UK at some point in the year was seen as what was 'needed / wanted' in terms of holiday by most of the families. That week was often under canvas, in a borrowed caravan, or staying with relatives. Where we had requests for term-time holiday absence, it was around this level of 'need' and its unaffordability for some in holiday times - and on rare occasions, we did authorise this because for some families it was the first holiday away from the immediate surroundings of their children's lifetimes.

In the more affluent school, the language of 'need' is used around the 'need' to go abroad for a holiday, the 'need' to have a fortnight of family time, the expense of flights in holiday time and the unacceptability of just a cheap UK camping holiday as a main family holiday....

Well, yes, caitlin, I'm judgmental too about people's personal family decisions when they impact on other children who are not part of that family.

I think it matters more as the kids get older - ten days in KS1 may not matter all that much (though it will for some), and in any case at that age there will already be a lot of variation in-class of ability, but ten days in Y7 when the kids are streamed certainly will matter.

I'm in the 'take them out' camp. As has been pointed out, the persistent truants are not going on holiday, they are just not attending school, and by placing a blanket ban on all absence it is using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. There will always be people who argue that there are enough school holidays in the year that everyone should be able to take their leave in line with their children - it simply isn't true. I work in the airline industry, and we have extremely tight rules about who can take leave in the school holidays - demand is always much higher than availability, and those who take leave during the school holidays are at a much reduced likelihood of getting leave at those times for the next couple of years. I also work weekends and Bank holidays in order that everyone else is able to go on holiday ( - my profession even work Christmas Day and Easter, and it is possible that I may have to work those days some years.) My job, and OH's, are difficult and we look forward to our downtime with our family.

I've considered the likelihood that I am damaging my children's education, and I don't believe that I am damaging it at all by taking them out for 4-5 days once a year. The damage is done more to the school in that their stats will be affected, but this is more to do with the flawed system of scoring schools than it is to do with the school being a problem. When I take my children away, I always ensure there is a learning element - they are not aware of it, but they are learning and have something to show for it when we get home. I've taken my children many places as a result of my work - Russia, Spain, Austria, Caribbean. Both children have a fascination with geography, language, engineering and culture that I think have certainly benefitted and been boosted by the trips I've taken them on. The fact that these trips have been enjoyable family time too should not detract from their value.

As ever, "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing".

You have discovered that it's not illegal to take your child out of school to go on holiday. Hurrah for your rights and all that ! Those HT's and teachers won't be bullying you because you have information to back up your actions and you're not one of those other parents who need guidance, poor things !

IMHO you and so many others are falling into the classic trap of exerting your rights with no thought for your responsibilities.

You have school age children and throughout their school age years you have, IMHO, a responsibility as a parent to work in partnership with their schools and local education authorities. If all parents took their children on holiday in term time, there would be a constant extra work load placed on teaching staff to ensure that whoever missed the previous week or 2 weeks was being given extra time and attention to be caught up to the same level as their class mates.

With the right to free education comes the responsibility to work in partnership with the education providers, not to cause them extra work because "I know my rights" and you don't consider that you personally need the guidance on the matter which is set out for all parents, not just some.

What I am annoyed with is that it is OK for for children to go away on a skiing holiday with the school but it isn't ok for them to go away on skiing hols with their family.

Now, as far as I'm concerned, this is the same thing. A week of hols out of school hols. Not all dcs will go, far from so the others will still do some work during that week and the ones away will have to catch up or is it that they expect the ones not going to wait for a week for them to come back so they start learning again??

Tbh, as parent, I really don't care about the attendance level of the school and the impact on their Ofsted report. I do care about my child being able to learn appropriately. Learning doesn't always happen at school to start with. But more importantly, to make a fully rounded individual, you need much more than good enough academic results. Sometimes, spending a week with your family is much more important for the development of the child. They do accept that for a child who is doing some sport at a high ish level. so why is to not OK for nurtuting relationships?

I DO however think that some people take the piss. A child in my dc years has been away for two weeks, right at the start of Y7 (ie the worst timing ever) to be at his dad's wedding ... in Cyprus. That was deemed acceptable apparently
And yes, if you have a child that has already been off for 2 or 3 weeks following a couple of illnesses, taking then out for some hols might not be the best thing for them. (And even then I can think of some circumstances where actually this could be exactely what the child needs).

I rather think that parents who take their children out and think it's so educational should fuck right off asking for work and expecting their child's teacher to do catch up.

Could they fill out a disclaimer form that lets the teacher off who doesn't make their attainment target and loses a pay rise because of the holiday? Thought not.

Or gets put a capability for not making targets? Thought not.

teacher that IS a very good point re the difference between need and want.

backinthebox

If parents really can't take holidays outside of term time, that would be special circumstances. But most can.
And if I was in those circumstances I'd do my best to minimise the impact of missing school on my children, not leave it to the teachers and to the children.

echt that's the problem with linking wages with results of the dcs isnt't it?

It's basically linking their wages to something they have no control over, theparent input and support oin the child's learning.
And imo, it's just hols. Its the homework, supportig the child if they are struggling an area (eg reading with them more or doing more spelling, learning time tables etc etc)

What I am annoyed with is that it is OK for for children to go away on a skiing holiday with the school but it isn't ok for them to go away on skiing hols with their family.
Because with the school they all go at the same time and don't lose out on things that their peers are being taught during that period. Surely it's obvious.