Page 16 | AIBU to tell you it is not illegal to take your child out of school to go on holiday

Lweji · 18/10/2015 10:58

TBH, if I had decided that it was worth it, I'd just pay the £60 fine and that was it. If the motive was financial, then I'd still save a lot.

Personally, I don't think a Disney holiday is ever worth the hassle of catching up with class, but then I'm not a big Disney fan. Or of theme parks. :)

Legally, I think here is a fine line as to what is regular or not. It should be defined in law if it's to be applied properly. Or it just leaves lots of room for interpretation and, frankly, lots of wasted time and money for all involved parties.
I prefer the system at DS's school (well, our country). It's clearly defined that over two weeks absence without a good reason (not a holiday) leads to failing that year (in the UK it could lead to a fine). In this case, this father would be ok, but the mother who allowed her child to skip every other Friday for a runny nose, wouldn't.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 18/10/2015 11:00

I cannot get upset about a week off school for a week at Disney in the whole of one childhood

Nicki in the case of the OP, the DC missed 2 and a half weeks of school the previous academic year.
One could speculate that the reason the HT decided to fine this year, was that it wasn't a 'once in a lifetime' experience.

And jelly - I trust HTs to do the right thing for the pupils. Each case should be judged against the standard set by the government, irrespective of sector.

Sirzy · 18/10/2015 11:02

Surely school need to be aware of his medical problems anyway Betty? Why the secrecy?

DS has medical problems which lead to a low attendance, but school have never pestered and that is probably in part due to the fact that I keep them informed about everything.

bettyberry · 18/10/2015 11:05

Surely school need to be aware of his medical problems anyway Betty? Why the secrecy? because some of the issues he has are not relevant to his learning and the receptionist does not need to know. The people who do need to know are signed into his care plan and receive the reports inc his current teacher, the senco and TA. Receptionists are not. That is my point.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 18/10/2015 11:08

Health is recognised as a barrier to learning, so it would certainly help the school to do their best for the DC if they know details of their health conditions - but equally, it is a matter of privacy.
I hope that most parents would work with the school to minimise the impact of ill health on a DCs education, but I can understand the desire for privacy, too.

jellyfrizz · 18/10/2015 11:15

In my experience HTs in the independent sector never, ever, ever issue fines. I'm not sure that there is even a mechanism to do so and in a money making business it would be unwise to piss off paying customers.

Yes, each case should be judged against the standard set by the government, irrespective of sector but this is not what happens,

bettyberry · 18/10/2015 11:17

SouthAmericanCuisine I just want to have a little more control over where his data ends up that's all. The relevant people see that information. The receptionists change often here. They do not need to see it.

Its also worth pointing out that some of the info in those letters, specifically a recent camhs one relate to my own personal health too. Specifically my PND in relation to my DC and some of the things his father did to me before we split and a health condition that makes life difficult for me. That is not something I wish to be public knowledge.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 18/10/2015 11:23

I'm not sure that there is even a mechanism to do so and in a money making business it would be unwise to piss off paying customers.

I have known a popular fee paying school terminate their contract with parents for poor attendance.

mummymeister · 18/10/2015 11:48

I am always staggered when I read the tired old

"you have 13 weeks to take them. why cant you book in advance. "

heres an absolute shocker for some of you - not everyone is in a 9 - 5 job 5 days a week. not everyone has a boss some people are the boss because they are self employed. some of us have to be there working when you 9 - 5 ers aren't working.

Some people have to work when others aren't working ie some jobs can ONLY be done at weekends and in the school holidays.

If you want a 24 hour culture then there are some people that need to take their holidays at odd times.

the need to take holidays at different times is not in my case driven by cost. this is true for all of my staff. I will not EVER grant them leave in school holidays.

lets look at teachers. they are in exactly the same position as I am. they can only take their holidays during certain weeks. why is it that teachers can understand this concept for their own profession but fail to understand that the same albeit in reverse can apply to many other professions.

and for those that say "well you chose to do this job, suck it up" would you say that to the doctors at the moment. or the steelworkers who just lost their jobs "yeah you shouldn't have chosen this occupation knowing how volatile it was" despite the fact that in the area they live in this is virtually the only job available.

what about people who work in tourism. go to cornwall. see how many are employed in this sector. what about the police, the army, the navy? school building and maintenance contracts have to be done at weekends and in school holidays.

The law says you must maintain reasonable school attendance. it doesn't say you cant take a holiday. Taking 2 weeks out when my kids don't miss school at other times means that I am not breaking the law. if one was long term sick in a year then yes, of course, I would consider this when deciding to take them out or not and probably under those circumstances wouldn't.

NickiFury · 18/10/2015 11:50

betty I'm sure you are totally responsible and aware when sharing your child's medical information with his school. In my experience MOST parents are responsible and aware with regards to their children though I don't think many agree given the doom and gloom "what ifs" so often posted on these threads.

Lweji · 18/10/2015 11:52

mummymeister

It has been recognised that sometimes you really can't take your holidays outside of term time. But in most cases, as in the OP's case, it was simply driven by cost.

mummymeister · 18/10/2015 12:00

Lweji it isn't recognised, not in our LEA anyway. the only allowable exceptions are for religious reasons and if you have a parent in the forces which does not apply to us.

it says in the guidance that you have to prove "exceptional circumstances* but there is no definition only that time for holidays wont normally be approved.

our LEA takes exceptional circumstances to mean funeral of a parent or sibling, hospital appointment - it does not include ordinary doctors, dental or eye tests.

whilst some of you may be lucky and live in LEA's which are flexible - I still keep reading

"oh you wont be fined if its less than 10 sessions"

not all LEA's interpret this the same way.

the legislation does not recognise that sometimes holidays have to be in term time. I have letter after letter after letter from Gove, Cameron et al all saying that I should take my kids on holiday in the 13 weeks given despite going to great lengths to explain to them what profession I am in and why I cant do it.

its just become this mantra. no mention of the kids who are out one day a week and what action they are going to take to sort this out.

Sirzy · 18/10/2015 12:02

It shouldn't include normal run of the mill appointments. They are not exceptional circumstances.

Only specialist appoinments (which of course includes specialist dentists, opthamology) should be during school time and even then most parents try to get them during holiday as much as possible (rarely possible with most specialists but always worth trying!)

Lweji · 18/10/2015 12:02

Sorry, I meant to say on the thread. It's shit that some LEA don't care.
And others allow whatever holidays.

tobysmum77 · 18/10/2015 12:08

its just become this mantra. no mention of the kids who are out one day a week and what action they are going to take to sort this out.

Yeah but it's easier to fine generally compliant parents than sort out the real issues. By stopping term time holidays you increase attendance overall, it doesn't help the children whose attendance is generally poor however.

As I've said further upthread personally I wouldn't ever take my children out of school to go on holiday, well unless it was 1 day or something to get a flight, not that I have actually done this. But what I think doesn't really matter..... Other people will have different opinions and it isn't something that should be legislated on.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 18/10/2015 12:29

mummy as I said up thread, school policies are not set by the LA, they are set by the Governing Bodies.
Hence the different interpretations across the country - schools are using their discretion to set and interpret policy.

mummymeister · 18/10/2015 12:43

SouthAmericanCuisine all schools and all parents received an e mail from our LEA on Thursday setting out their view and that they expected all schools to follow this guidance. no mention of Governing bodies discretion. they said this was their interpretation of the guidance and they expected it to be followed by schools in their area to prevent inconsistencies. I heard what you said the first time. I just have this letter in front of me now and this is what it says. they do not want discretion on a school by school basis because in the LEA it is, quite rightly, causing chaos. 2 kids both in the same family in the same LEA where one school gives the leave and the other doesn't. that is the problem. and this is their solution to it.

I am not saying it is right. I am saying it is what is happening where I live. I suspect other LEA's will follow.

SouthAmericanCuisine · 18/10/2015 12:52

They can't enforce it mummy - they may want it, but a good GB will do what is right for their school - not blindly obey LA guidance.

amarmai · 18/10/2015 12:53

do the schools that issue the fines receive the $$ ?

SouthAmericanCuisine · 18/10/2015 12:58

amarmai No, they don't.

jellyfrizz · 18/10/2015 13:27

I have known a popular fee paying school terminate their contract with parents for poor attendance.

I am fairly certain this would not have been for taking a week's holiday.

PacificMouse · 18/10/2015 13:44

Except that in the RL world this is what happens:
School tells you to make sure your child is present for the register and then you can take them out as you want because it doesn't show up on the stats.
So eye test, GP appointment etc are all ok.
Tbh saying that a GP appointment should be done out of school Hours is ridiculous when you see how hard it is to get ANY appointment at all...
Thanskfully both our primary and secondary are a bit more realistic than that.

PacificMouse · 18/10/2015 13:45

But YY about the LEA setting the rules....

BoneyBackJefferson · 18/10/2015 13:53

mummymeister

"lets look at teachers. they are in exactly the same position as I am. they can only take their holidays during certain weeks. why is it that teachers can understand this concept for their own profession but fail to understand that the same albeit in reverse can apply to many other professions."

Yes lets look at teachers who have no say in this and keep getting referred to as if they do.

BoneyBackJefferson · 18/10/2015 13:55

jellyfrizz

You are not 100% certain though, fee paying schools will get rid of pupils for many reasons if they believe that the child will not uphold the standards of the school.