To not like boyfriend disciplining DD?

[S00TY]

My boyfriend, who I would like to point out is lovely and gets on great with DD has been spending a bit more time than normal at my house has been rubbing me up the wrong way.

I have no problem with him telling DD off if she does something directly to him. Whether it be rough play getting a bit too rough, picking her up on manners when speaking to him etc. However, when it comes to things like telling her to tidy her room (we're talking toys on the floor not anything major) I feel that this is my domain. It is my home and therefore if there is mess I wish to be tidied up at that specific moment I will ask her to do it, I do not need someone else to.

Another example is when DD is speaking to me poorly (again just normal 4 year old backchat) and I am dealing with the situation he has been known to talk over me and issue an ultimatum. So will maybe say, if you don't stop speaking to your Mum like that you won't be allowed to do x. If I am dealing with a situation I certainly do not need someone to cut me off and decide what punishment should be given. I feel that is down to me.

Whilst I do see that he is trying to have my back I have been a single parent for 4 years and I have managed to raise a lovely, well mannered (most of the time), outgoing, friendly, thoughtful little girl. I find it.. for want of a better word, intrusive. I also feel that talking over me is undermining me in front of DD. It is just the two of us during the week and we manage perfectly well.

I have picked him up on this. I mostly do it one to one but have told him not to speak over me in front of DD numerous times for two reasons, one - I don't want her thinking that that's an ok thing to do and two - in the immediate moment I have disagreed with his ultimatum and will not be standing by what he has said.

I know that I am struggling having someone else in a position to be "parenting" (again not the best word choice as I am her only parent) role towards her but I'm unsure if these annoyances are perfectly reasonable or if IABU.

Any advice would be appreciated.

op, I understand that your bf chipping into the conversation when you are trying to discipline your dd may feel to you as if you are being undermined, but tbh it sounds as if he is trying to do the best to be a part of your family and that you are finding this difficult.

Fwiw, repetitive questions of "can I have/why not/please/please/pretty please," are bloody annoying to the most sane person, and I'll be honest - there are a lot of posts on the step parenting boards from sm's who state that their dh's are ineffective at disciplining their children and because they feel they aren't able to step in that leads to a lot of resentment on their part because they are only the step parent.

if you are going to have a long-term future together then it is unrealistic to expect that he not play a parental role in your dd's life. Also children learn very quickly that they can get away with a multitude of things if the one parent is fairly soft on discipline and the other isn't allowed a say.

I was recently at my parents' house and my nephew gave my mum a mouthful of attitude for no good reason (my sister was out of earshot) I asked him whether he felt it was acceptable to speak to people like that and told him in no uncertain terms that it wasn't. (he's twelve). Similarly my ds who is almost thirteen has given me attitude on numerous occasions, and while I certainly don't stand for it and make my views known at the time, my dp has also told him not to speak to me like that. I have no issue with that - children should never be in a position to think that they are only answerable to one person.

Also, I wonder whether you and your dd are possibly very alike, and because of that you get caught in a rut of her needing to keep asking and you needing to keep saying no and both of you thinking you're right? It's not a criticism, but being very alike in personality can easily lead to clashes where you both have to have the upper hand. It can also make you feel ineffective when trying to discipline because the frustration of alikeness means that you feel you're getting nowhere sometimes. Me and my ds are extremely alike, and I'll confess I can have a tendency to shout, and sometimes it takes my dp as voice of reason to be an additional person into the conversation to say to ds "look, you know you are in the wrong, and your mum has said as much, let's just take a breath and not all get annoyed/upset because nobody is benefiting." I admit he would never overstep in terms of handing out a consequence, but then my ds is nearly thirteen, if he was four things might well be different. I do try to shout less and take a step back, but I do also appreciate the backup from my dp because it makes me think a bit more as I'm not just stuck in a cycle with ds - iyswim.

Just wanted to say that you read like a great mum and your dp doesn't sound bad either. Good luck with the talk

I am not of the belief that any boyfriend or partner coming into the life of someone with a child means they're on equal footing (or should be).

The child should, of course, respect the step-parent (SP), but no more than the child should respect any adult in their life (within reason of course). Being able to "tell the child off" isn't what gets someone respect, that's something that a parent instills in their child (the single most person a child can trust to have their back).

I think you need to get to the root of why he does it by analysing the instances that he's done it.

In one example where she's arguing or disagreeing with you, he's either:

1. trying to "come to your rescue";
2. she's annoying him; or
3. you're annoying him (the going around in circles).

The telling her to tidy her room example though... it's not his house, so the state of your house isn't his business, let alone the state of his girlfriend's 4 y/o daughter's room. So why did he decide, in that moment, to tell her what to do? He either:

1. feels some responsibility for her;
2. being controlling; or
3. she was annoying him (and he wanted to "get at her")

It's obvious from your posts that you believe that he's simply feeling responsibility for the both of you, but I think the worse ones are what everyone else is picking up on but of course we hope for your child's sake (and of course yours) that this is the case.

He needs to realise though that he isn't her parent. He needs to respect your role as her parent and trust that you are making the right decisions for her. He needs to learn to communicate any frustrations with you (her room needs to be tidied) and you need to not take these as attacks on your parenting. There need to be boundaries though and you need to talk to him about them. He is, from your posts, not listening to you though so I agree with a PP that says a codeword may be needed BUT he really is the one here who needs to work on his behaviour. You CANNOT have someone who is unable to control themselves (he knows, you've told him, he continues to do it), around a child. At this point she's retaining things better than he is. I'm not surprised you're annoyed about it!

p.s. There is typically a rule where if the parent is around, THEY are the parent. So if he's alone with her of course you'd want him to make sure she's not being naughty, but being alone with her doesn't need to be the time he mentions a dirty room!

He'd never do it to a person on the street, so I'm not sure why he'd interject when the parent is in the house, let alone something that's not his business (dirty room).

I'm guessing his 'lack of filter' isn't tolerated at work or in situations where he has limited authority.

Boundaries are only as good as your defence of them and that means, having and following through with consequences of overstepping them. 'He means well' is not an excuse for him ignoring your expressed wishes. Not only does he think he has the same authority as you in your house but he also thinks he has the authority to overrule you too.

Stop pussyfooting around and making excuses for this man and start listening to your gut, it really is your responsibility on how much you expose you and your daughter to this.

Sorry if that was offensive, but I just wouldn't tolerate any friend coming to my home and undermining my parenting. Boyfriends included.

I do have a friend whose boyfriend started doing these exact things in terms of "helping" before he even lived with her. she didn't say anything because he meant well. It progressed to him laying down the law about how she should parent and punish her kids, yelling at the kids, setting rules she disagreed with and eventually smacking them. So I probably see your OP in a bad light when it's not as bad as it sounds because he started in the same way - ignoring boundaries, butting in.

Be careful OP. It might be nothing and hopefully I'm completely wrong.

You have given him an inch and he has taken a mile. He is telling you how he conducts himself in family relationship situations and you should listen to him.

He does not respect you or your role as perfectly competent parent of your daughter, and he will cause you immense grief as a result of that; but you need to protect your daughter from him because he will cause her great unhappiness and insecurity too.

Your gut is telling you this is a red flag. Your boundaries are not as far off as you think they are. You are caught between two impulses here -- the relief at finally having found someone who seems decent vs. a glimmer that there is more to him than you want to see.

Please listen to your gut.

It's good that you know this now and you don't all live together. This would all be magnified if he were to move in at any point. While I don't think he is a bully it sounds like you have very different approaches to children. This would be a big deal for me and I'd have to make the relationship much more casual and reduce how much he sees your dd.

My friend dated someone for 6 months and he started doing this to her ds (3yrs). She ended it pretty swiftly which I admire her for. No point dragging it out as it will keep happening.

Yeah, DH is an equal parent with DD, and if I heard them going back and forth like that I'd probably tell her to knock it off too. Your daughter clearly isn't respecting your authority, but it's not his place to step in and try to play bad cop. If he knows you don't like him interfering he needs to walk away instead of blurting out whatever pops into his head.

I agree with PP's about parenting classes. It seems like he thinks parenting is about "I lay down the law and you small child will listen". If you don't have kids it's very easy to think that. I wouldn't move in until you two are on the same page with regards to parenting techniques.

I have not read all the comment but in your shoes I would go broken record on him and just repeat "I am dealing with this Pete/Tim/Harry. when he buts in. He will either butt out or he will get out of your life if he can't resist he urge to jump in. Is it worth losing him over, is it worth keeping him if he can't stop this?

You can take parenting classes together and it may work but the person who needs discipling seems to be him. If he can learn with you at parenting classes, great (Family Link Nurturing course is the BEST... I have done 8 parenting courses, I know of what I speak!!

familylinks.org.uk/about-us/at-a-glance/the-nurturing-programme

I would also say if he wants to back you up then have a code word... "What do you think... Malcolm/Ian/Edward.... at which point he is invited by your words to back you up.

Have a hand signal that means back off... use it.

Conversely if your boyfriend is talking to dd about something she did and you want to chip in you could say, would you like some help etc etc and he may say no its fine, but ultimately you are the mum, it is your house and what you say goes, for dd and for him.

The parenting classes may help to explain why ultimatums only exacerbate some situations with some children too!

A few points;

There was no "relief" at having met someone. I was quite happy and content by myself with DD. It's just the way it worked out.

Some posters seem to get the impression that he believes he is some presence to be listened to and obeyed in the house. He isn't. He is under no illusion that he is. As I have said these instances are few and far between and probably have only occurred on a day that DD is a bit more back chatty than normal. 99% of the time he does just leave us to get on with it. However, it doesn't change that I find it extremely irritating to be spoken over whether it comes from a good place or not. I have had discussions with both my parents for doing this on occasion also.

At one point or another I HAVE asked all of them their opinion i.e what do you think X. To me that is invitation to help me out but I will ask if I feel it is required. The bedroom thing was an extension of me asking her to keep it tidier the day before however, on that day I was having a clear out and had told DD I would be putting things in her room and that I would be putting them away.

He is not some authoritarian, he is actually a very placid person but as I have said there are these instances that really annoy me and as I've acknowledged they will be addressed fully.

With regard to me saying about him being on equal footing, we have discussed moving in together (in over a years time - my minimum time limit) and I am acutely aware that as DD does not have her father in her life she will inevitably look at him as a father figure of sorts. I don't want him to bounce every act of defiance back to me. He should be able to deal with it and I guess naively I thought it would just be a case of copy and learn but obviously he is also his own person and will make mistakes. The same as I do. However, because she is my DD I do feel I have the right to interject if it were necessary where as I don't feel he does.

I guess thats something I need to work on and figure out how/if we can come together as a unit and if not where we go from there.

He is not abusive, he is not a bully, he does not dictate to me. At this point I believe it is something to be worked on and I do have confidence we will figure it all out but until the time comes I won't know how that will pan out. I don't find his interjection to be what will end the relationship. I think it will be our starting point to get on the same page.

I'm open to as much advice aimed at me as I am aimed about him.

Also thank you to everyone who has posted.

It's a tough situation for you.

Just like you would have to negotiate parenting rules with your DD's father of he was in the picture, you have to do the same here. The issue being, that you feel as the biological parent, that you have 90% rights and DP has 10%, whereas in the first scenario, as long as no one is getting hurt, it's more like 50/50.

If you are going to be co-parents down the track (if this is in 12 months, or five years) then you both need to decide what is acceptable parenting and leave the other to it. I honestly don't see this has DP trying to undermine you, or be domineering, especially when I read your other posts about it.

But, you ignoring and going against what HE says to DD is actually undermining him. Just as you feel he is doing to you, by not following through you are telling your DD that what DP says doesn't matter and that she doesn't have to listen to him. That might be fine for now, but if you do stay together, it could cause a bit of an us vs him situation in the future. And what about children that you might have together? Would you let him decide how to parent them or would it be your way or the high way?

To be fair, if DD was misbehaving and she wanted to go to the shops with you; if she had been warned, what was the harm in her staying at home with DP? Is she uncomfortable around him? Do you not trust that he would be ok with her for an hour? (ie. not because he is dangerous, but rather it would be awkward for the two of them)

Someone else said that you can't have your cake and eat it too. I kind of agree.

After all that, I don't think you are doing a bad job. I just think it's a minefield that you need to navigate to decide what role this man will play in your lives. You don't need to decide tomorrow that he has 50% responsibility or decision-making rights, but perhaps if he is having a small run-in with DD let them go, and afterwards if you would have done it differently have a quick word and he can explain why he did it his way.

My sister is a stepparent, and she has been in her stepson's life since birth. But when her son was born she really resented how much of his dad's time the stepson took when he was staying with them. It wasn't pretty and led her to be quite harsh towards him. She's better now, but still finds parenting someone else's kid a bit difficult, even though stepson lives with them 80% of the time. In their house she has the same authority over him as his dad. Your DP probably feels just as strange about this situation as you do and, if he were a good man, would likely relish the opportunity to attend a parenting course or even just a couple of counselling sessions, where you could hash it out.

I do tend to let him handle situations when it directly involves him. But the instance I was referring to was actually between DD and I, he wasn't involved but was there and interjected with the ultimatum hoping it would solve the situation however, it was not an ultimatum I agreed with.

Whilst I do see what you are saying about undermining him I felt he did that to me by speaking over me when I was dealing with it. Also I don't feel that ultimatums regarding what we were doing (it wasn't shopping it was us going out for an afternoon) was his call to make. At the very least it should have been discussed with me before saying it to DD. It was me taking her out not him.

In saying that, your post is correct and there is a lot of navigation that needs to be done. I am finding it difficult at times and I do know that there are changes I need to make also.

I have no issues with them being alone together. They always have a ball and DD raves about their afternoon whenever I've gone out and all the fun games they've played, den's they've made, sticks they've collected. But I did disagree with him saying you won't be going when I had no intention of cancelling our plans.

It may be because I've been by myself with her that I've found it easier to pick my battles and that for both our sanity and regardless of a bit of lip here and there we still need the fun stuff. If I did cancel plans everytime she was a bit cheeky what would the alternative be? Us sitting in the house bored? I work full time and I value the time I have with her where I'm able to do fun things with her, I feel like it was my call to make, not his.

And before it is jumped on, he is not jealous of us spending time together alone. He had his own plans. I'm not even convinced he was thinking of following through with it, it was more of an attempt to get her to realise she might lose something she was looking forward to to almost shock her into behaving. I used to think like that too, but through being a parent I've realised that ultimatums never work unless you are willing to follow through with them

OP just wanted to say you sound extremely level headed and have handled some of the more over the top posts well. Hope it all works out for you, DD and your DP.

Thanks Amaretto. I'm glad I didn't leave the thread as I was tempted last night. I've had some great advice

You've told him and he's apologised and promises not to do it again but he does. So at what point does; he means well, he's inexperienced, he doesn't have a filter, stop becoming excuses for someone who is ignoring your expressed wishes. When it comes to parenting your daughter, you simply have more experience than he does but it appears, that he feels that his methods are more appropriate and therefore have more weight. Only you can dissuade him of this thinking by communicating your boundaries and the consequences of overstepping them.

Don't contribute to a imbalanced dynamic by undermining your authority, by prioritising and making excuses for him. How can you progress further if he continues to disrespect you by 'forgetting' agreements on discipline. His other good qualities do not entitle him to a free pass on this issue.

You need to get a lot tougher.

I think he sounds like a good bloke who is trying but not quite getting it right. Like every other person on earth, he is not perfect, has not been given the manual on how to parent flawlessly, so yes, he is making mistakes. Just like everyone else.

I think a lot of talking is needed, and probably repeated conversations. Ingrained behaviours that he has learnt from his own family dynamic are not going to be unlearned after one conversation. If he doesn't miraclously change overnight and never put a foot wrong again, it doesn't mean he is abusive. He's just a guy learning how to be in a family. Talk to him, keep talking. Go to parenting classes if you think that would help.

There was no "relief" at having met someone. I was quite happy and content by myself with DD. It's just the way it worked out.

Fair enough.
But perhaps you find yourself invested somewhat in him or in the idea of 'you and him', and he has now shown an aspect of himself that clouds that picture?

At this point I believe it is something to be worked on and I do have confidence we will figure it all out but until the time comes I won't know how that will pan out. I don't find his interjection to be what will end the relationship. I think it will be our starting point to get on the same page.

This^^ bespeaks investment. Please do not take him on any level except the one in the here and now, or kid yourself that things will improve 'over time' or with you 'reasonably explaining your objections' to the things that have come up that have got your goat.

He has been asked to stop and he has been told why. He has not listened. This is him. This is really, really important.

This is your starting point -- that he does not seem to listen, not that he will possibly listen, eventually. Please live in the here and now. He has told you what he is like in the present but you have allowed optimism about the future to take over.

Please take a big step back from this relationship. A man who is a 'work in progress' for you is not ready for a relationship.

Everything you say here expresses how torn you are between what your gut is saying and what some part of your heart is saying.

You are a single mum who has done a good job for a good few years. You can see others chipping away at your stature in your own home and put a stop to it or at least call them on it, but the relationships at stake (i.e. with your parents) are not the same as a relationship with a boyfriend. You will always have your parents -- you are all stuck with one another, but there is risk attached to drawing lines with a BF and I think this is where your problem lies.

This is your starting point -- that he does not seem to listen, not that he will possibly listen, eventually. Please live in the here and now. He has told you what he is like in the present but you have allowed optimism about the future to take over.

This

Yes, as mathanxiety stated, I'd focus a bit more on the here and now.

Right now he doesn't listen. I don't think it's a deal breaker per say, but I would exam the relationship with the assumption that he won't change and see where you see this going. People, in my experience, don't change. When they do, it's usually because of therapy or an active effort to do so. If him and his family all blurt out whatever pops into their brain with no filter, it's probably not going to be something he stops anytime soon. A life long habit is going to be impossible extremely hard to break without some sort of CBT therapy.

Everyone has personality quirks, I blurt things out to DH and interrupt him all the time and mean no harm by it. But if it was something that was going to bug him, we wouldn't be a good match, no matter how good my intentions were or how much he wanted it to work. It would fester away and eventually build resentment. As it is, DH is understanding of it and tells me when to just shut up and let him talk so we work out quite nicely.

Even with DH, we have different parenting philosophies. However, since we're both her biological parents, we have equal say. There is a chance that if you bring in this boyfriend and he shares parenting responsibilities he will for all intents and purposes be her father. Which means she's going to mimic some of his behaviors and ideals. I would have a good think that if you had a child that turned out just like him, if you would be ok with that. If not, the relationship is a waste of time if it's eventually going to fail anyway.

Dontlaugh posts really resonate with me

Aside from that - All this angst over some bloke who's been around for just a year?

You need to learn to take your time OP. Really. Your DD comes 1st and its not to say he won't have parental responsibilities in the future but he doesn't have them now does he? Yet just 1 year in and you are already at the stage of being concerned about his disciplinary attitude towards your DD and then getting very defensive over it...yeah he may be a lovely bloke in other ways but that doesn't make THIS particular behaviour lovely does it?

Why does he feel he has to disciplline your daughter anyway she is FOUR ffs she is going to get things wrong isnt she? You have completely different parenting styles I don't care what shit he may have been through previously that isn't your DD's problem to take on board.

It is ok to actually date a man and not have him in parental/disciplinary position until you are very well established you know. Not least you're within the 1st year of being together...the honeymoon period as its often called. Yet you've all this to contend with.

As others have said - he doesnt listen to you. So take that on board not any lovely flowery future you may have in mind with him. Be his girlfriend by all means but he doesn't need to be so much in your DDs life as yet. Take your time.

He's not been around for a year. He has bee around DD for a year. Funnily enough I didn't introduce them on the first date