Can I ask why the U.S. don't want an NHS?

[Fizzielove]

Why don't Americans want an NHS? I just don't get it? Can someone lease explain to this to me?

why do you think people here have their NHS GP write their private scripts from their private consultants!!
Yes - I do this for some of my cancer drugs. I have BUPA through work but it doesn't include some drugs in my case (e.g. Tamoxifen) and they cost privately rather more than I would want to pay out of my own purse, but are free to me on the NHS.
As is a very expensive drug that DS has for Chronic Myeloid Leukaemia and costs tens of thousands per year ... but nothing to him.

Hospitals are assessed now just like schools are. I have seen a big improvement in cleanliness. There is no issue with sharing a bathroom, but it should be clean.

And where someone clinically needs an ensuite, that is provided at my local hospital. So CFS patients get single rooms and en suites.

I have also had friends who have went into private hospitals paid for by the NHS. Yes they had single rooms and better food, but some of the nursing care has been appalling.

of course no one in a wealthy country should have to go on mixed wards with such few facilities and it goes without saying they should be clean

no that would not happen in a private hospital

but what does happen is that treatment that you need will not be given if your insurance does not cover it you will be sent to a public hospital - it is that basic in the states and what treatment you get there is not the best treatment that is available

I spend a lot of time talking to Americans. What still shocks me is their attitude to those on welfare.

A lot of them love the idea that they get food stamps and are really pro the government telling them what they can and can't buy, to the extent that I have seen debates with people up in arms that someone can buy a birthday cake on food stamps. There definitely seems to be an attitude of not wanting those on welfare to have any freedom with money. It could be just the group I know but they find it absolutely crazy that we get CB when we decide to have children and they love the whole idea of food stamps. They are very much about welfare being a very short term solution and while people are on it it should be difficult to live (exceptions made for those who are disabled etc)

A lot seem to think the NHS is crap, don't like the long waiting lists and how we have little choice over what DR we see when referred. They have many more checks than we do, yearly smears (think that may be changing) and vaginal exams. Children usually have a health checks yearly and they seem to be much bigger on a variety of screening tests which they seem to like.

The fact is the NHS isn't the best system for them to model anyway.

Obviously this is just based on the Americans I know.

The French system is rated the best in the world. It also costs considerably more. To get that people have to pay more. There seems a reluctance to do that though.

Absolutely Badders. When I return to the UK I will have to have hysteroscopies done privately on an annual basis for as long as we can afford it. If we can't afford it, then I will have to go without because I cannot tolerate the pain of the NHS procedure. Which is interesting because I have an 85% statistical likelihood of developing womb cancer in the next 10 to 15 years and that can only be detected by a hysteroscopy.

The rationing will only get worse. One would imagine that providing a hysteroscopy would be cheaper than treating womb cancer, but common sense never seems to feature too highly in NHS decision making!

No way!
I am not being spoken to like that again!
I have the £10 thankfully so I can pay.
I would also like to point out that palliative care is a postcode lottery. As we found when my aunt was dx with a terminal illness.
If you live somewhere with plenty of hospice spaces, and day respite then great. If you don't....then a dying woman gets shunted from pillar to post in her final week of life.
Im afraid my NHS experiences have been pretty poor :(

Yearly smears are totally unnecessary. The US has a real issue with medical over treatment.

Have you thought that those procedures might be done without GA as it's safer? I've had a hysterscope. Not painful. Wouldn't have wanted to undergo the risk of a GA for one!

Yes hospice care and day respite is provided by charities, so it is a lottery. And most dying people never get it. The district nurses providing end of life care though IME have been brilliant.

Enthusiasm my point is that the treatment you get in the UK is not the best available either! We are all just encouraged to believe it is as part of the national religion of "NHS worship". And most of us have only experienced healthcare in the UK so don't realize how poorly it compares. EG where I currently live, the longest I have ever waited for an X Ray is 45 minutes. In the UK it would involve writing a letter (which would probably get lost), chasing it, getting an appointment for 3 months later, it being cancelled, getting a rearranged appointment 3 months later (that you need to reschedule but can't because nobody ever picks up the phone). I know that is something of an exaggeration, but I suspect most of us can relate to some of it!

And cleaty you are welcome to share a bathroom if you like, but I find the idea utterly repellent. Why can every other country in the world manage en suites (or 2 to a shared bathroom) apart from us? Why can't we accept that some things are just done better in other countries?

You get local anaesthetic with a hysterscope. So you do get pain relief. If a hospital is carrying these out without any pain relief, report them.

GAs are avoided because of the medical risks.

Head I gather it is more painful for childless women or those who have not delivered vaginally. Point is, I did want a GA because I could not tolerate it, and the NHS has told me to go away and wait for the cancer to arrive instead. I can't imagine why anyone would choose a system like that - it's appalling.

I know the NHS could be much better if more money was spent on it. I don't see ensuites as the best way to spend additional money when there is no clinical need. There are other areas such as CAHMS and speech therapy, where more money would be better spent. And ensuites would in the main have to be accessible, and thus would take up a lot of space. Most people in hospital are elderly or disabled and at least need to use bars, etc.

What I want is good medical care, that is what matters.

cleaty I had local - it makes no difference to the pain. As I said up thread, the private gynaes do not do it without sedation or GA. The NHS won't provide anaesthesia because it costs.

Complain YoungGirl. That sounds appalling.

Cleaty you have illustrated perfectly why the NHS is doomed. Everyone wants the things that are important to them to receive funding, often with very good reason. I would prefer to see better genetics teams and improved cancer nursing. I would rather better infection control (including no other fuckers in my bathroom!) On the open market, the insurance policies each of would -hypothetically - purchase would be different, but because we have no choice in the UK we are stuck with a single system trying to deliver all things to all people. Put simply - it can't.

Anyway, I need to get back to work so I am out!

All of the work to dismantle the NHS really scares me. I am a very frequent user with hospital in stays, outpatient appointments, and nurses visiting at home. Unlike some of you, I can't afford to go private, but as my partner works we would not be amongst the very poorest that would not have to pay co pays.

I am really scared that I will end up like my US relatives, unable to afford the cost of medical treatment I already get. So while there may be en suites or better food, there won't be treatment for people like me.

I would disagree about emergency treatment, ongoing care is not always so good and if it is not an emergency I agree that it is not as good as it could or should be

when my ex bil had is accident the family are straight away having to worry about insurance and what care he will get after a few days he was no longer critical but being told he is not walking out of hospital anytime soon (three months later still unsure if he will ever walk again) they are having to see lawyers so he does not loose everything. as soon as my sister arrived at the hospital she is having to deal with insurance clerks (which she refused as her hysterical son needed her attention more). I could not get my head around it and now the hospital he has been moved to is horrible he will not get the best treatment (I am not talking about care, as in nice beds, nice food etc) but the treatment that is available he will not get this he would if he paid that would not happen here. I went there years ago when my brother was taken there as he collapsed at work thankfully he was moved later that day but had a $4k bill to pay for 48 hours of treatment that his insurance company have allowed him to pay in instalments (as his insurance only partly covered costs)

No one here has to re mortgage their house to get cancer treatment, my Dad is 72 years old he should not have to pay $600 a month for health insurance

Insurance does not always cover you for good healthcare and certainly not for the best treatment

En suite or flu jabs or screening, the money can only be spent once.

Yes things would be a better service if more money were available, I think the French also spend more, but we seem not to want to do that, and then complain that the system we have is no good.

I think for what we pay, we get very good treatment and care. The two things have to be taken into account together.

Don't forget, many of our hospitals were built when en suites were not the rage, I can remember going to hotels even 25 years ago where shared bathrooms were the norm. there has been a rapid pace of change and with it expectations but we are used to paying at a lower rate.

I think there is a lot of factors, that people have covered on here, well off not wanting to subsidise the poor, lack of choice, poor standard of health care.

Because they can see how poorly run and wasteful the NHS is so don't want it

younggirl you can still have private Heath care here, if you want!

Why don't the Americans want an HSH?
Because the well-off get a much better service than they would over here, and people with actual medical conditions or less money, they don't give a shit about.

The NHS is from far perfect. A miriad of reasons, New Labour's PFI fiasco, Tory Austerity, Aging population, massive population boom with no additional provisions in public services.

To save the NHS, we will have to pay more tax. The tories push for less tax and more private enterprise.

But in America they pay more in insurance than most of us pay in tax anyway.

If things are to continue the way they are through Austerity, cuts and privatisation, The UK is moving towards a USA model not vice-versa.

*NHS first para