Can I ask why the U.S. don't want an NHS?

[Fizzielove]

Why don't Americans want an NHS? I just don't get it? Can someone lease explain to this to me?

Actually evidence shows that that the UK has some of the best care for chronic conditions in the world. Certainly the UK has some of the best pallitive care.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34415362

The problem with chronic conditions is that it becomes really hard to get insurance for existing conditons. Some people in the US are uninsurable.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2010/02/how_insurers_reject_you.html

In the UK it doesn't matter what your medical history is. You can get health care.

The irony is Americans pay more for their healthcare than us, but have worse outcomes. Maternal death and infant death levels are a disgrace. And people die all the time from treatable illnesses.

If we basically doubled what we pay into the NHS pot, thereby spending % wise what US citizens spend on their healthcare, we could have a very glitzy NHS service. Likewise if you compare to Germany (not double in that case, but several percentage points more).

Mind you, a US friend living in Germany told me she was definitely going to have her babies while she was there, since in the US it would all be co-pay whereas in Germany at least the insurance they paid covered the birth costs.

I do struggle to think of any US provision where I think "oh yes, we could copy that in the UK". I think the cultures are just too different. I think they're wrong but I do accept that they can do thing their way. I worry though that there is such a right wing bias in the voting system (even more than here!) that, like in the case of the gun laws, it is virtually impossible for the more left wing voices to be heard in the US. That must (well I know it is from friends over there) be incredibly frustrating and dispiriting.

ReallyTired - under ObamaCare, insurers can no longer reject you or penalize you financially for pre existing medical conditions.

I have a number of friends in the US. ObamaCare gives them a better deal than they had, but many still struggle to afford treatment for health conditions. Medical bills is the number one cause of bankruptcy in the US.

Really tired....I cannot get a flu jab.
So I can't get the healthcare I need on the NHS anymore.
And it's going to get worse...more and more drugs and treatments will be withdrawn.
For totally arbitrary reasons.

Why can't you get a flu jab on the NHS? Lots of chronic conditions entitle you to a free flu jab.

The other issue with US medicine is that for those who can afford high quality insurance and the co pays, is over treatment, with the risks that brings. I was reading research yesterday about the over treatment of suspected cancer in this population in the US, and the resulting unnecessary side effects.

FingeroFudge actually what happened in the NHS when Gordon Brown turned the money tap on is that everyone got pay rises (clinical and management) and the dreadful wards and dire care got no better. Productivity got worse iirc. No reason to expect a massive injection of cash would do anything other than enrich the staff. (I say that as someone married to a NHS consultant with an embarrassingly decent pension!)

In 2006 (Labour gov) I was in a 12-bed mixed ward with one shower and 2 toilets for all patients, eating dry bread rolls for breakfast. Even leaving aside the medical care (which was just about okay in the end, but slow enough to leave me in a position to bring a successful negligence claim against my hospital and GP), hospitals designed like this are totally unacceptable in a rich country such as the UK.

I have lived in 6 different countries with health insurance and the U.S. was far and away the best when it comes to accessing prompt and effective care. The NHS is so bleak and awful ime that I cannot believe it still exists. Happily it won't exist for much longer - but as long as healthcare is still delivered free at point of need, I don't care.

Not anymore they don't!
Not that the Drs are actually telling patients that!
They wait till you are in the room, and then quiz you about "why you think you need a flu jab?"
I have Cfs, fibromyalgia and a liver condition.
But I don't qualify.
Luckily I can pay the £10 to get it done at a local pharmacy. What about those who can't?

Insured people in the U.S. receive the best possible healthcare. It's us that need to change

that is simply not true

my dad had to re mortgage is house because his insurance only partly paid for his cancer treatment, his insurance now costs $600 a month if his cancer comes back he will again have to find extra money for his care

my ex bil had a terrible accident and will need rehabilitation for at least a year his insurance will not cover all costs and he will have to sell his business within a day or two his family were having to deal with lawyers and make sure money was put aside for the care of his sons (basically hiding money away)

Obamacare my sister is unable to get she has to have a different insurance as she has implants, this is because she had a cancer scare and one breast partly removed

Our NHS will have to change we simply need to pay more into it but we should never look to the states as an example of how the healthcare system should run

Food in hospitals in England have improved enormously. Nine years ago is a long time ago to base your view of a service on. People like myself who are very frequent users of NHS services are far better placed to judge services.

Very few wards are like the old wards with 12 or more beds. In nearly all cases the largest ward you get is 6 beds. Personally I prefer the bigger wards. When you are too ill to read, watching the goings on in the ward is much better than being in a tiny ward, or a room alone. But large wards are usually only used now as temporary overflow wards.

I know that my condition which is genetic, is treated much better here than in the US. I have relatives in the US whose health is much worse than my families, because they do not get the level of preventative care we get here. Yes they get nicer wards, but that is meaningless when you die much younger.

younggirl you are lucky, that is not the case for everyone working in the NHS by a long shot! And I fear a lot of the cash injection is paying off PFI (that's the part I had direct dealings with). My point is that the cost issue is a non issue. The US are paying a lot for their health care, we are paying a lot less. If we want to improve the NHS, looking to the US is not going to give us ideas for how to make it cheaper.

I've experienced both systems and you can drag out all the stats you want but the U.S. System overall provided a much higher level of care that could never be funded for everyone. Children see paediatricians for their care exclusively. You interview and choose which one you like. GP level care would never be acceptable. Under most plans you self refer to specialist without any GP or primary care involvement. Most Americans who have truly experienced the NHS beyond a GP visit are horrified.

One point that no one ever brings up is research. The private U.S. fuels drug and device development. Without it companies simply wouldn't invest in the huge financial burden to research and develop new and innovative drugs and devices. It would have a worldwide knock on effect. It's not often brought up but does need to be carefully considered.

In my surgery anyone with the list of chronic conditions listed, gets a free flu jab. I rather suspect you may have a GP that doesn't really believe fibromyalgia/ME are real illnesses, and that is why they quiz you. The entitlement to a free flu jab has not changed. This is about your GP.

The horror stories of people not being able to receive care, while awful, are almost always down to the person not choosing to fully cover themselves. It's a stupid gamble and some pay a huge price for it.

Another example of money saving in NHS - procedures such as hysteroscopy are no longer done under GA or sedation to save money. They are fucking agonizing. Leaving aside the obvious feminist issue, how the fuck can a healthcare system that can't even afford and/or won't provide GA still be in business and delivering "care"?

On the contrary, my private gynaecologists (2 different countries) absolutely refuse to do the procedure unless the woman is sedated, because it is so unpleasant.

So I absolutely believe that Badders can't get a flu jab. It's the thin end of a big wedge.

I hate these threads. The people who push for a US solution, are those who are well off so have had high quality insurance, and don't have to worry about co pays. Yes well off people are better with this system than the NHS.

But most people who are frequent users of the NHS are not well off. It is people with chronic illnesses that need treatment for years and years, who will suffer if the NHS goes.

Nope.
Apparently the qualification for a free flu jab has changed this year.
Never had an issue until yesterday.

If badders was entitled to a free flu jab in the past, she will still be entitled to one. You get a free flu jab if you have a condition that puts you at an increased risk of complications from flu.

AliceAnneB - Top quality insurance costs a lot of money, and there are always co pays. You are extremely arrogant if you think people are being foolish, rather than that they can't afford it.

cleary I don't want the U.S. system. It's actually the second worse (after ours) imo. I would prefer the French or German (or even I think the Swiss, which is run along similar lines...)

One thing I definitely do not want is to ever spend another second doing is sharing a bathroom full of discarded jugs of piss with complete strangers. Amazingly that never happened in a private hospital.

badders you may or may not realise that the nhs choose its at risk groups on a year to year basis. Things change.

There are not unlimited stocks of immunisations generally. The reason? Well it might surprise you but there are very few companies making vaccinations in the world. It's a very risky business.

Last century there was a court case, yes in the USA which effectively made it that companies could be sued and would be liable for any effect the vaccination had. Even if the side effect was not known or could be predicted prior to the vaccination. Even if the science wasn't there to explain it.
We are lucky to have any vaccinations.

This is who is entitled to a free flu jab. And it makes it clear that your GP can still provide one if you are not on that list, but your GP thinks you need one. Anyone with a chronic liver condition is entitled to one. You have that, so you are entitled to a free flu jab. Go back to your GP.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/pages/who-should-have-flu-vaccine.aspx

I was refused sedation for an endoscopy last year.
I went private (luckily am covered under dhs work)
It's insane.
I had sedation for the same procedure 3 years before!
It's all about saving money now. Not what's best for the patient, nor in their best interests.
I had an emergency op canceled 3 times 2 years ago. It was awful.
Putting the NHS on a pedestal is not helpful.
It is nowhere near the best healthcare system in the world. France and Scandinavia have a far better system and much better survival rates.