To Think The UK is a Racist Country and the racism is deeply ingrained.

[ACoolDad]

For the last couple of weeks BBC Three has been running documentaries about racism and racial tensions in the U.K and USA. This week we saw a program called "Is Britain Racist?" it failed to prove much apart from black men are seen as more likely to steal from shops and women in Burka's are more likely to face verbal abuse.

As a second generation Black Briton from Jamaica, I have faced racism many times, I do believe the UK is a racist country but it is a in the closet type of racism that is hard to prove. The UK unlike the USA has a type of racism in which few people are openly racist, but racism is deeply ingrained into are mindsets as the program explored.

The presenter who comes across as a very anti racist person still perceived black people as dangerous sub consciously when she had her brain scanned. You have to ask why? You have to ask why black people have been sub consciously viewed as angry, violent and criminals.

I am so proud of my family and my black, mixed and white children and stepchildren. My family represent the tolerant modern Britain that we have and should be proud of.

My son aged 15 was stopped and searched two weeks ago. My white stepson aged 15 has never been stopped and searched, despite them wearing similar clothes, my black son has been profiled by the same mentality explored in the documentary. The type of racism is so difficult to fight as it is so difficult to prove it is racism.

Britain comes across as a country that is improving in terms of race, but I believe certain people and aspects of the media always have to push the idea of white supremacy in different forms. In the past it was considered that black individuals were considered less intelligent now it is considered blacks are more likely to be criminals.

It would be interesting to hear what you think.

black men are statistically 7 x more likely to commit violent crime as white men.So 7 x more often the victim's attacker will be described as black and the police aren't then going to stop white men on suspicion of that crime are they?

There is a lot of xenophobia towards EU immigrants among black British people, too. Some people have short memories; their own grandparents or even parents were immigrants and yet they now don't think anyone else should come here.

I read an interesting article in the paper shortly after the Ferguson shooting, it was written by a black female, who in summary was saying that raising he children and other families raising their children they have to teach their children that they are 'second class' citizens, that doors will not just be open for them, police will profile you etc. so from an early age these children are being raised thinking about society quite negatively. She went on to say that there is some responsibility on the community to not do that but on the other hand when you child comes home and tells you something happened (i.e. racist incident) and why did it happen how else can you explain it away.

I am not implying or saying anything at all in writing the above but I remember that article because it was such a different perspective and view on things.

For me, I think this thread shows up quite nicely about how people are utterly unwilling to accept the facts of prejudice (whether overt, covert or unconscious) in society, and how people will scrape around for reasons to justify any hard numbers that point to racism.

The numbers around deaths in custody, for black men, are shocking. There are a lot of people trying to get things looked into. No-one is ever found to be at fault. Look at what happened with Stephen Lawrence - is 20 years really long enough to turn around such entrenched racist attitudes on the part of the Met? Of course it isn't. The figures say that something rotten is still happening.

The idea that black men are just, what, naturally violent, naturally criminal, it's a disgusting Victorian abhorrent racist concept, and anyone who comes out with stuff that heads in that direction as an excuse for the behaviour of the police, well it's just utter shit.

deaths in custody

As a child, my mixed race friend was once stopped and accused of stealing his own bike by passing police, either because they were racist or because a racist neighbour phoned it in. Also the only person I know who went to boarding school (on a scholarship, because his parents have always supported him in whatever he wanted to do), and life has not been easy for him since then -- in London. He thinks the US is less racist on the whole than the UK, although neither are close to being the most racist countries. I'm with you, OP!

*And a as usual, a lot of white people here trying to dictate what is and what is not racism!

How they've experienced racism without understanding 'structural' racism and how any racism they may have received has very little effects on them.

How being white Irish or as usual white Jewish, oh and now even white polish (although you can hide all of these facts) is the 'same' as being black? Are the stop and search or police brutality figures for Irish or polish people the same as for black people? No.... Why do you think that is then? Can every police officer with 'racist' views towards Irish people tell they're Irish through thier car window? If not, how comes???????

Do you even understand the dictionary definition for racism. Why are you in such s rush to make this a 'me too' conversation and turn this debate into yours? *

As I brought up being Irish in London I assume that I am one of the people this is directed at. My post wasn't about "me too-ism" but about acknowledging white privilege and racism, a case of supporting the OP. Its not the same as being black in the UK but there are those of us here agreeing and trying to be supportive.

As someone who has been removed from their car on more than one occasion and questioned quite aggressively in one case I assume that actually they know who I am but that's a sectarian issue rather than racism.

And obviously I don't know how to bold!

The links you posted are very interesting, Another.

Ego I'll need another few years to answer that one!

What I do know is that for the effects of racism to stop and not have an impact on the future generations, there's going to have to be a lot of education and admittance from white people about what racism is and how they contribute to it, and what white privilege is.

But do it think that's going to happen given the repeated response from white people on discussions of race? No!

So my thoughts are what can we do as a community first and that is a million dollar question!

A lot of the issues in the UK are not as over as it is in other countries. But it is still there, very strong.
Racism and sexism are two major issues in the UK imo.

I remember hearing a couple of mums at the school gate talking about someone they knew who was getting married to someone of Idian origin.
Plenty of comments about how it clearly never helped that woman to go to private school and how the neighbours would react to have an Asian style wedding at their doors.
All that whilst still being diggy about going to said wedding.
And claiming it wasn't racist at all and they were very open and had no issue at all with Asian people....

The problem with things when they aren't open is that it's extremely hard to put your finger on it.
I am white but not British and yes even I have seen the difference of attitude (even more in the last year or so). So I can easily imagine what the OP and other black/asian people are going through :(

BrandNewAndImproved

"Also the posts about being white and experiencing racism from minorities are wrong. That's not racism. Being called a white slag isn't racism. It's a temporary prejudice."

So its just abuse from a bigot then?

Another the two articles you have linked to are very interesting.

I want to ask though, what do you think white people can do to help change things?
Clearly on an individual basis, you can start by treating people of clour like individuals. Not 'Blacks' or 'Asians'.
But what about structural racism?

no need to be aggressive with the ??

How the hell did mollie123 see the use of question marks from crystalgall aggressive?

Bloody ridiculous.

Is it because she's speaking out against racism she's automatically 'angry' and 'aggressive' ?

bbj it's a temporary prejudice.

Indeed bed.

Overuse use of question marks, much like capitalisation of words, is often seen as being aggressive on Internet forums.

Alis, I understand that but I still don't believe the use of 3 question marks is aggressive.

I have never said it's easy for black boys from private schools when they leave school although all the ones here go to good universities. Remember my borough is over 60% black and most of the doctors, dentists and the like are not white here so I am not really sure that where we live in a fairly mixed area that there are huge problems particularly for these relatively well off Asians.

Are the issues more about class and economic circumstances than race in London? I see much much much more sexism around here than racism as I am surrounded by a majority cultures where women serve men and come second.

juneau I've not read Americanah. I'll be adding that to my Amazon basket.

Brioche lazy stats which show a lack of intelligence. If I'm honest I dont really have the inclination or motivation to educate you. Feel free to read the links I have posted. I doubt you'll get much from them but that's all you'll get from me. Sorry if I've judged you but your post makes me assume your one of those 'scared of the refugee kids in Calais who have just left their private schools in Libya to claim UK benefit types'.